Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b

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clogdivermusic
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2011/04/27 09:00:16 (permalink)

Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b

Has anyone experienced any sample rate problems on X1?  I am not sure where the problem lies if its X1 or Sonar or my MOTU ASIO drivers.
 
I am really confused, when I record at 48 and then export the project to 44.1 to pop on a CD it plays at the wrong speed/pitch.  Its what I have done forever and and a day, only difference is Win 7.  Before I was "forced" to move to Win 7x64 I was on Vista x64 (problems expected if ever there was an operating system) I did not have problems even with X1. 
 
I was determined that it was something I set wrong in the clock settings of the driver (ADAT Optical) but I regret I am not seeing this is I do the same thing in PT9 ( reason for Win 7 ) much to my hair pulling.
 
Ever knob or setting is set to 48K when recording or appears to be.
 
I'm hoping someone has seen this before or has some insight into diagnosing this. 
 
 
Cheers

www.oxygenstudio.co.uk
Sonar Producer X1b
I7 2.66  6GB RAM
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Motu 8 Pre-> ADAT Octane's / Lots of Squiggly boxes that cost me loads of cash and I don't use.
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    brundlefly
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/27 10:39:10 (permalink)
    That's odd, because X1b has made it harder than ever (if not impossible) to record (or even play back) with the sample rate not matching the project rate.

    I also use an external ADAT clock source, and SONAR's audio engine won't even start now if I inadvertently load a 44.1 project with the clock running at 48. It used to be that SONAR would happily record at the wrong rate for the project with the result you're describing, but X1b won't do it; when it detects the discrepancy, it tries to change the sample rate of th interface, but it can't because the source is external, and it just stops with an immediate dropout error.

    Nevetheless, it sounds to me like one way or another, your clock source is not matching your project sample rate. So, what's the ADAT source, and can you confirm that SONAR shows 44.1 in the transport display and that the MOTU is set to "external" for its clock source? Also, it seems it's now sometimes necessary to have the "Default [Sampling Rate] Setting for New Projects" in Preferences set to match the current project rate, even if it's not "new".

    I'm actually not too happy with the new implementation. For me it causes more problems than it prevents.


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    clogdivermusic
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/27 11:37:25 (permalink)
    Hi yes I never had a problem in any previous version of Sonar before, even when I had M-Audio or in the past few years the MOTU interfaces.

    The clock source is set by a big knob on the Octane. Its a manual affair but I dont have a problem with that as the Octanes have always suited my sounds.

    The Clock Source in the driver is set to ADAT Optical which should pick it up from my switch. If I change the switch to 44.1 it does not change the new project. It stays on 48 even if I forget and leave it on 44.1K.  In Sonar prefs its set to new projects start as 48K.


    www.oxygenstudio.co.uk
    Sonar Producer X1b
    I7 2.66  6GB RAM
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    Motu 8 Pre-> ADAT Octane's / Lots of Squiggly boxes that cost me loads of cash and I don't use.
    #3
    clogdivermusic
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/27 13:11:10 (permalink)
    Oh and just to note, the display of the MOTU shows (when sample rate clock source as ADAT) whatever the Ocatane Sample rate is set to. I am inclined to think that its Sonar that has stopped looking for the driver setting before opening a project.  

    bug or buggered? 

    Isn't it funny how that word does not translate across the water? In England its something your Grandmother might say while smoking a fag.  <- and there is another one !  

    Happy Days...


    www.oxygenstudio.co.uk
    Sonar Producer X1b
    I7 2.66  6GB RAM
    Windows 7 64bit 
    Motu 8 Pre-> ADAT Octane's / Lots of Squiggly boxes that cost me loads of cash and I don't use.
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    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/27 14:01:31 (permalink)
    Also, it seems it's now sometimes necessary to have the "Default [Sampling Rate] Setting for New Projects" in Preferences set to match the current project rate, even if it's not "new".

     
    If you can illustrate a case where this is true please contact me. The default sample rate technically shouldn't be required to match the project sample rate. It was the case in the past due to certain problems.

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
    My Blog, Twitter, BandLab Profile
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    clogdivermusic
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/27 19:17:23 (permalink)
    What "Default"? I only have values and there is nothing that refers to a default.  I don't quite understand this but its only Win 7. I just popped Vista drive back in its all working great.  

    If I have my audio devices set at 44.1 and the default is 48 in Sonar it takes 48. End of story for me. X1 takes no notice of the drivers reported value.

    Whats the score?



    www.oxygenstudio.co.uk
    Sonar Producer X1b
    I7 2.66  6GB RAM
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    Motu 8 Pre-> ADAT Octane's / Lots of Squiggly boxes that cost me loads of cash and I don't use.
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    brundlefly
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/28 03:39:15 (permalink)
    What "Default"? I only have values and there is nothing that refers to a default.



    Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings > Default Settings for New Projects



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    brundlefly
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/28 03:44:08 (permalink)
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
    ]


    Also, it seems it's now sometimes necessary to have the "Default [Sampling Rate] Setting for New Projects" in Preferences set to match the current project rate, even if it's not "new".

     
    If you can illustrate a case where this is true please contact me. The default sample rate technically shouldn't be required to match the project sample rate. It was the case in the past due to certain problems.

    The issue arises when I launch SONAR with the Default Sample Rate set to 48kHz, and my external ADAT clock running at 48kHz. If I then change the external ADAT source to 44.1kHz and open a 44.1KHz project, it will not play back until I go into Preferences and set the default to 44.1kHz. If I start SONAR with the external clock already running at 44.1kHz, there's no problem; the project will play without my having to touch the Default Setting of 48kHz.

    Maybe this is working as designed for interfaces using an external clock source that can't be changed by SONAR. But it means I either have to restart SONAR to change sample rates or temporarily change the Default Setting for New Projects.

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    clogdivermusic
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/28 06:51:20 (permalink)


    Preferences > Audio > Driver Settings > Default Settings for New Projects



    Ok, yes that is set to 48K. I thought you meant by Default there was a default option in the list of values.   Either way it does not switch to the actual setting available at the sound card driver.







    www.oxygenstudio.co.uk
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    I7 2.66  6GB RAM
    Windows 7 64bit 
    Motu 8 Pre-> ADAT Octane's / Lots of Squiggly boxes that cost me loads of cash and I don't use.
    #9
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/28 11:16:08 (permalink)
    Maybe this is working as designed for interfaces using an external clock source that can't be changed by SONAR.

     
    Not really, its not intentional. Please log a bug (whenever the bug submission system is back online) and I'll try and figure it out. There is probably some unwanted dependency on the default sample rate. That should only be enforced when creating a NEW project.

    Noel Borthwick
    Senior Manager Audio Core, BandLab
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    brundlefly
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/28 11:23:19 (permalink)
    Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
    ]


    Maybe this is working as designed for interfaces using an external clock source that can't be changed by SONAR.

     
    Not really, its not intentional. Please log a bug (whenever the bug submission system is back online) and I'll try and figure it out. There is probably some unwanted dependency on the default sample rate. That should only be enforced when creating a NEW project.
    Will do, Noel. One additional data point: After getting playback to work by changing the Default Sample rate to match the current project, I can change it back, and the project will continue to play okay. It's as if just touching the setting resets a flag somewhere that tells SONAR the clock and the project are matched, and lets the engine run.

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    clogdivermusic
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/29 08:50:41 (permalink)
    OK so sounds like I have something very similar but mine actually plays and does not stop the engine.  I am using ASIO as my driver.   Not sure if that makes a difference. Inidentally, is that still the driver of choice for Win 7 ?

    www.oxygenstudio.co.uk
    Sonar Producer X1b
    I7 2.66  6GB RAM
    Windows 7 64bit 
    Motu 8 Pre-> ADAT Octane's / Lots of Squiggly boxes that cost me loads of cash and I don't use.
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    brundlefly
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/04/29 10:50:30 (permalink)
    I've always had better luck with ASIO drivers than with WDM, and I get the impression that hardware manufacturers spend more time getting them optimized, but both should work nominally. The best starting point is whatever the manufacturer recommends. M-audio usually recommends ASIO in their setup guide, but I don't know about MOTU.

    Just to be clear about your setup.. your signature seems to suggest that the MOTU is the front end for the Octane, but a quick Google says the Octane is a pre-amp with ADAT out, designed to act as the front end for an interface with ADAT input.

    So what order are the two boxes in on the input side, and which is slaved to which?

    With X1, it seems things should work best with the interface connected to the PC being the Master and the pre-amp slaved to it. But in may case, the Alesis QS8 doesn't like being the slave (I get distorted audio that way), so I have my 1820m slaved to the Alesis' clock, which is why SONAR has no control over the sample rate, and I have to manually change it to match whatever project I'm going to work on.
    post edited by brundlefly - 2011/04/29 10:51:46
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    clogdivermusic
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    Re:Export Sample Rate Weirdness X1b 2011/05/02 06:32:33 (permalink)
    Yes you are correct but I cant put it the other way round as the sound is all distorted and pops and crackles.  It was fine in 8.5 all the way back as far as I can remember and even switched project formats when selecting on the Octane.

    www.oxygenstudio.co.uk
    Sonar Producer X1b
    I7 2.66  6GB RAM
    Windows 7 64bit 
    Motu 8 Pre-> ADAT Octane's / Lots of Squiggly boxes that cost me loads of cash and I don't use.
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