strange midi behaviour?

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splodger
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2011/05/06 11:01:24 (permalink)

strange midi behaviour?

I'll have a midi track that's working fine (kontakt 4 soft synth) and then it won't work.
I make a fresh empty midi track and copy the midi pattern to it and it works fine.
I compare the two tracks and the settings are identical and yet only the new track works.

I have no idea why sometimes midi tracks just don't work.
I am suspicious it could be human error but......maybe it's a bug I don't know.
#1

13 Replies Related Threads

    brundlefly
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2011/05/07 11:20:36 (permalink)
    This has been reported before, but rarely. It happened to me once a long time ago. More often than not silent tracks turn out to be a routing/channel/patch/controller/envelope problem or clip muting or track archiving or some other user error, but it's possible you've stumbled on this rare bug.
    #2
    Storm
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/05 22:32:37 (permalink)
    I'm running into this bug now with X1d in Bootcamp. I'll make some velocity edits or extend the length of the notes against the video. Then when I exit the Piano Roll and play the track, the sound is gone.

    I'm working on sound for a TV show so I'm on the road but maybe this one for me is simply X1 on a Bootcamp laptop. So random.

    2 songs from storm's band reijo | Latest Video Shadows | new reijo track - storm on lead guitar
    #3
    cliffr
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/05 23:25:05 (permalink)
    Check your preferences/options, three options something like (not at my DAW, but you should be able to work out what they are):
     - Zero all controllers on stop
     - seach back controller values on start
     - play effects tails
     
    I always have these options checked, that way, you get the MIDI CC values playing correctly regardless of where you start play from within the project.
     
    Now, the key here is ... you MUST set the vital controllers to get sound, and it varies by VSTi/Library.
     
    You should set up track templates for them all anyway, so you can load them up ready to go in a couple of seconds.
     
    Set the following controllers at the beginning of every track (in your templates too).
     
    MIDI CC 7 = Volume.  Normally set to around 100
    MIDI CC 11 = Expression (also referred to sometimes as volume) - makes a big difference to timbre on some libs/instruments.
    MIDI CC 1 = MOD-Wheel.  This is one to keep in mind for Aria Player (Garritan).
     
    Those are the main three to make sure you get sound.
     
    AriaPlayer is a bit unusual in that it uses MODWheel to control volume, so you need to turn it up :-).
     
     
    Hope that's what you're seeing, 'cos it's easy to fix :-).
     
    You should try working the CC11 for expression with many of the instruments too.
    Makes a big difference to the expressiveness ... fancy that :-)
     
     
    Cheers - Cliff

    i7-950 24 GB, GTX 580, W7/64 Ultimate, Sonar Platinum, Alesis MasterControl, KRK Rokit RP8g2s
    Some Real piano, basses, and guitars, Komplete 8Ultimate, Ibanez guitars, MusicLab RG/Strat/LPC, Trilian, Omnisphere, RMX, EWQL SO Platinum, Pianos, Choirs, VOP, Gypsy, Goliath, SD2, MOR, Ra, HS, HB, too many plugs, Midi controllers, and all kinds of weird gadgets
    My Soundclick Page 
    #4
    gbarrett
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/06 13:33:07 (permalink)
    I've had a running conversation via email with one of the techs at Cakewalk regarding some very strange MIDI issues. So far the issues have yet to be resolved, but I've found a couple of work-arounds. I was hoping that X2 would have those issues solved, but they don't. It's really strange that Cakewalk started as MIDI only, now it seems to be old-fashioned to use MIDI.

    A real musician knows the difference between the music and the notes.
    #5
    Resonant Order
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/06 13:35:28 (permalink)

    Could you let us know what those issues are in case we see them?


    I've had a running conversation via email with one of the techs at Cakewalk regarding some very strange MIDI issues. So far the issues have yet to be resolved, but I've found a couple of work-arounds. I was hoping that X2 would have those issues solved, but they don't. It's really strange that Cakewalk started as MIDI only, now it seems to be old-fashioned to use MIDI.




    "After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Music at Night, 1931- Aldous Huxley
    #6
    John
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/06 14:11:56 (permalink)
    You may also wish to increase the MIDI buffer size in Preferences, MIDI, Playback and Recording. 

    Best
    John
    #7
    ccDuck
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/06 16:04:43 (permalink)
    Hello all, I've been perusing the X1 threads to see if my particular MIDI issues have been already addressed (as to avoid RTFM syndrome), but while I was delighted and relieved to find "missed notes during playback" was solved by the aforementioned "increase the MIDI buffer size", sadly there are still some frustrating MIDI issues for me. First, the preliminaries: I'm running X1 Studio (X1d, build 534)x64 on Win 7(x64), i7 970 @ 3.2 Ghz, 16 GB RAM. MIDI interface is an Axiom 61 controller through a Saffire Pro 14. All drivers are up to date and happy, no MIDI issues in any other program. Now, to paint the picture: A current project has one audio track with a few FX plugins as inserts; one instance of SI Drums (MIDI recorded and unfrozen) with a few more insert plugins processing the audio; all well and good. I add an instance of SI EP to record some more MIDI- and that's when SONAR decides it doesn't love me anymore- depending on the relative humidity, phase of the moon, etc. live MIDI input will be sent to the EP, or the drums only, or both the EP and the drums, but seemingly independent of what the track/instrument settings are for receive, echo, etc. It will be a case of triple-checking that the drums are indeed set to no input, the EP is set to receive from the Axiom, and that all MIDI preferences are where they're supposed to be, followed by a trial-and-error process of save-quit-open until SONAR behaves as instructed... then. Lag. Lag that makes recording a decent live-sounding EP part impossible. After clicking the delay compensation on and off in the plugin properties, now NO controller messages are being recieved. Virtual keyboard responds, produces sound, so not a plugin or audio dropout... let's press the good ol' "Reset all MIDI" button, and.. oh, look- the audio engine's stopped. Let's go into -oops, never mind. SONAR "has stopped working". I want to love SONAR, I really do- there's a lot of wonderful features and tools; but the first thing I think upon starting up my DAW should not be "Please just work this time."... Thanks for your forbearance, I'm off to my anger management class now ;)

    "But that plug-in HAS to fix everything... $999, and just LOOK how SHINY the GUI is!"
    #8
    cliffr
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/06 23:25:27 (permalink)
    Hey guys ...
     
    What I said, plus what John said.
     
    Other than that, if you want help you need to provide your system specs (preferably in your signature), and a concise description of the perceived problem.
     
     
    @gbarrett - what are the MIDI issues you are having, and system specs ?.
     
    @ccDUCK - you say "audio track" in your description. Are you using the "Simple Instrument Track" ?.
        If you're using a 'Simple Instrument Track", don't.  Split it into separate MIDI and Audio.
        Simple Instrument Tracks suffer limitations, and best not to use them (IMHO).
     
    I do extensive MIDI work, and from my experience if you have adequate MIDI buffer setup, sensible preferences, and good MIDI device and drivers, there are only one or two issues which may possibly occur.
     
     
    Cheers - Cliff

    i7-950 24 GB, GTX 580, W7/64 Ultimate, Sonar Platinum, Alesis MasterControl, KRK Rokit RP8g2s
    Some Real piano, basses, and guitars, Komplete 8Ultimate, Ibanez guitars, MusicLab RG/Strat/LPC, Trilian, Omnisphere, RMX, EWQL SO Platinum, Pianos, Choirs, VOP, Gypsy, Goliath, SD2, MOR, Ra, HS, HB, too many plugs, Midi controllers, and all kinds of weird gadgets
    My Soundclick Page 
    #9
    ccDuck
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/07 00:24:16 (permalink)
    Hi Cliff, Thanks for the tip about not using the "Simple Instrument Track"- I'd thought that it was just SONAR's way of simplifying the routing by providing a wrapper for the MIDI/audio tracks needed for instruments, but I'll give the alternative a go and see if it helps at all; incidentally, perhaps my post was a bit unclear- I'd meant that the project has: 1) Audio track (audio file, FX plugins) 2) MIDI track (MIDI sent to SI Drums, set to no input) 3) Audio track (SI Drums output, FX plugins) 4) MIDI track (no recorded data, set to Axiom input, output to SI EP) 5) Audio track (SI EP output) I do realize that this is a forum, and not Tech Support, so I'm not trying to demand that anyone here be able to read my mind, look over my shoulder, and automagically fix whatever PEBCAK issues may be at work here... but if posting helps the bakers or other users get a little closer to more clarity and less stress in the long run, why not? As baby birds everywhere might tell say, "A closed mouth doesn't get fed", heh. Also, forgive the horribly unreadable block-o'-text, but I am apparently too stupid to figure out how one successfully formats the text for readability, as the Return key seems to have no effect...
    post edited by ccDuck - 2012/11/07 00:32:24

    "But that plug-in HAS to fix everything... $999, and just LOOK how SHINY the GUI is!"
    #10
    dcumpian
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/07 08:51:24 (permalink)
    I was having Midi issues when I first started using X1d, but they all went away when I rerouted my Midi cables. I have a dedicated Midi interface plus the one that is built into my audio interface. Contrary to information I was getting elsewhere, the dedicated interface was not truly Windows 7 compatible and was causing strange lag issues. It even started causing Midi recordings to show almost 128 ticks early, which was alarming. All I did was to switch to using the Midi In on the audio interface, which I wasn't using at all before, and use all the Outs on the dedicated interface. Separating things this way cured my issues and I haven't had any crashes or lag since.

    Now, I'm not suggesting that everyone needs to do something like this, but I am suggesting that things may not always be working the way you think they are.

    Regards,
    Dan

    Mixing is all about control.
     
    My music:
    http://dancumpian.bandcamp.com/ or https://soundcloud.com/dcumpian Studiocat Advanced Studio DAW (Intel i5 3550 @ 3.7GHz, Z77 motherboard, 16GB Ram, lots of HDDs), Sonar Plat, Mackie 1604, PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL, ESI 4x4 Midi Interface, Ibanez Bass, Custom Fender Mexi-Strat, NI S88, Roland JV-2080 & MDB-1, Komplete, Omnisphere, Lots o' plugins.    
    #11
    gbarrett
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/07 22:07:03 (permalink)
    The most frustrating MIDI issue I have is that when you create a file using a particular MIDI device setup, in my case I use a Roland piano as a controller in my small studio, and I move the file to another setup on the stage, X1 and X2 always cough up an error that it can't find the original MIDI device used. I've made the changes to the later file with the stage hardware, but it still wants me to acknowledge that the original MIDI device isn't present. It makes using a playlist set almost useless. The workaround is to assign the MIDI track to a softsynth, then freeze it, delete the original MIDI track, then save the file. That solution does work, BUT it's a hassle and I have to keep two versions of the song (studio and stage) if I ever want to tweak it. Cakewalk has been very gracious regarding the issue, but the techs aren't sure why it happens. I showed them that if you open the file in a binary reader, you'll see that the original specific driver setup is encoded into the file, i.e. "Roland Digital Piano IN, Roland Digital Piano OUT" which is different from earlier versions. The older versions didn't store actual driver names in the files other than "MIDI Dev 1 or AUD Dev 1". What's really weird is that if you export the MIDI track as a SMF, it still has that info embedded, but if you use it in different program, the info is ignored.

    A real musician knows the difference between the music and the notes.
    #12
    Storm
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/08 21:04:22 (permalink)
    Glad this thread got bumped again. I couldn't find it. I wanted to say 'thanks Cliff, you are a gentleman and a scholar.' This was the first time I had used Simple Instrument tracks ever. My instinct always told me to stay away from them. I had all the things on your list checked but one. I checked that (forget which one now) and went back to Audio Track / MIDI Track and no problems. Thank you.

    2 songs from storm's band reijo | Latest Video Shadows | new reijo track - storm on lead guitar
    #13
    SuperG
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    Re:strange midi behaviour? 2012/11/08 23:42:57 (permalink)
     
    MIDI CC 7 = Volume.  Normally set to around 100
    MIDI CC 11 = Expression (also referred to sometimes as volume) - makes a big difference to timbre on some libs/instruments.
    MIDI CC 1 = MOD-Wheel.  This is one to keep in mind for Aria Player (Garritan).
     
    Those are the main three to make sure you get sound.
     
    AriaPlayer is a bit unusual in that it uses MODWheel to control volume, so you need to turn it up :-).
     
    Hope that's what you're seeing, 'cos it's easy to fix :-). 
     
    You should try working the CC11 for expression with many of the instruments too. 
    I wish I had run into you about a week ago - I found out about CC behavior the hard way, and yes, I'm using Aria. Now I know I'm not crazy for wondering why CC11 reacted differently with different VSTis.
    #14
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