kjs00333
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Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
Hello, I currently have project which has MIDI data in it from Battery3 soft synth. Since I didn't exactly plan ahead here, and was quite the novice at the time.. I put all my drums on one track (toms, snare, kick) and cymbals (high hat, china, splash etc) on another. I figured I could do the EQing and volume adjustments all inside of Battery, and that it would be plenty sufficient for my needs..but this is just not working out well. Not to mention, I didn't know battery can have the cells go to separate tracks at time of recording.. So, the lack of knowledge in this situation will be additional tedious work for me.. You live you learn..
So..with that being said, I have 2 tracks of MIDI now with all that data on it. My ultimate goal is to have all the drums and cymbals on their own individual MIDI tracks then bounce to audio tracks so I can use some better options when it comes to EQing. So how do I go about doing this? Luckily, I have everything separated enough on the PRV so I can see what is where, but is this as simple as removing my snare drum hits from one track PRV and copy/pasting to another MIDI track? What is the best way to go about correcting this?
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Susan G
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/18 17:45:27
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Hi-
There's a CAL for this called (IIRC) "Split notes to tracks". There should be a "Run CAL" command on one of the menus, but I don't want to say which since I don't have X1. I think it was under "Process" in earlier versions.
-Susan
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kjs00333
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/18 18:02:35
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Yes, you are correct, there is split notes into tracks CAL under the process menu. However..the source, destination and channel setup have me a bit confused. Source and destination are self explanatory, but the channel I don't really understand.. I have 2 notes of bass drums (c#, and d# lets say on the PRV), will this split those up, or only take the specific notes I want to move? (i.e - snare drum which is on a#) So, would the channel be a representation of that note that needs to move? The snare drum in this example would be the only one I need to move to a new midi track.
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Susan G
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/18 18:13:25
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kjs00333
Yes, you are correct, there is split notes into tracks CAL under the process menu. However..the source, destination and channel setup have me a bit confused. Source and destination are self explanatory, but the channel I don't really understand.. I have 2 notes of bass drums (c#, and d# lets say on the PRV), will this split those up, or only take the specific notes I want to move? (i.e - snare drum which is on a#) So, would the channel be a representation of that note that needs to move? The snare drum in this example would be the only one I need to move to a new midi track.
It will create a new track for each pitch (note number) and put all the notes matching that pitch into the same track, so you'll have a separate track for each kit piece (including 2 for your 2 bass drums, which you can merge later). If you only want to move the snare, though, you can just select all the A# notes in the PRV, cut them, and paste them into a new track. You don't need to worry about the channels -- the notes are probably all on 10, and that's fine. -Susan
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kjs00333
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/18 18:24:50
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Copying the track and removing the notes that I don't (snare) and on the 2nd track remove the bass drums definitely sounds like the easier solution. That way I am left with snare and bass drums on two separate tracks. As long as I have the same inputs and outputs like the original track, then the soft synth wont care I assume?
I'll give it a shot and let you know how it turns out.
Thanks Susan!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/19 05:53:06
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kjs00333
My ultimate goal is to have all the drums and cymbals on their own individual MIDI tracks then bounce to audio tracks so I can use some better options when it comes to EQing.
Personally, I wouldn't do this. IMHO, you'd be much better off having all your MIDI notes on ONE MIDI track which then feed separate Audio tracks inside Sonar where you can balance your faders, add EQ, compression etc to the individual audio tracks. Inserting a drum map between the Midi & Battery will also make your life a bit easier as well.
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kjs00333
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/19 10:55:51
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Sounds like a good suggestion, but I have absolutely no idea how to do this.
Not to mention, merge my 2 tracks together into one MIDI track.
Could you elaborate further?
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bitflipper
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/19 10:58:16
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The problem with the cal script is that you probably don't really want a separate track for each instrument. More likely, you want one track for kick, one for snare, one for toms, etc. If that's the case, it's quick and easy to clone the track and remove what you don't want from each clone.
Still, it's far better to keep the drums in a single track (for ease of editing) and split the audio within the drum synth by assigning instruments to multiple outputs. Not all drum samplers offer that capability, although I believe Battery does.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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rbowser
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/19 11:20:45
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Bristol_Jonesey
kjs00333
My ultimate goal is to have all the drums and cymbals on their own individual MIDI tracks then bounce to audio tracks so I can use some better options when it comes to EQing.
Personally, I wouldn't do this.
IMHO, you'd be much better off having all your MIDI notes on ONE MIDI track which then feed separate Audio tracks inside Sonar where you can balance your faders, add EQ, compression etc to the individual audio tracks.
Inserting a drum map between the Midi & Battery will also make your life a bit easier as well.
+1 - Kjs, you want your MIDI drum info all on one track. The control you're after in your mix is to have all parts of the kit on their own Audio tracks, but the MIDI itself can stay on one track where it's much easier to work with. Your response to Bristol asked about merging the two MIDI tracks - very easily. Select one of the tracks so it's highlighted. While holding Shift, grab the track and drag it on top of the other track. MIDI can have countless layers. Randy B.
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/19 11:21:18
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If Battery operates in a similar way to BFD2, then the mechanics of doing this is pretty simple.
Insert battery as a soft snyth: don't select "simple instrument track" - you want one with separate MIDI & audio tracks, and where it asks you how many audio tracks, I'd select "All Mono"
In BFD, this will create a track for every single output that it exposes, including tracks for Overheads, Room mics & Ambient mics
I then change the interleave on the Overheads/Room/Ambient channels to Stereo.
When you've finished building your kit, and assigning each output to the relevant Sonar tracks, you'll end up with a few tracks with nothing assigned to them. Delete these tracks.
Insert a drum map and get it to line up with the output from Battery and you're good to go.
All your MIDI notes will be on one MIDI track and you'll have individual audio tracks for every kit piece mapped enabling you to put whatever processing you want on the kick, snare, hi-hat etc.
When you're happy with your drum tracks (performance, timing etc) FREEZE the synth.
Freezing doesn't apply your Fx to the audio, so you can carry on with your processing.
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kjs00333
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/20 15:27:48
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Bristol_Jonesey
If Battery operates in a similar way to BFD2, then the mechanics of doing this is pretty simple.
Insert battery as a soft snyth: don't select "simple instrument track" - you want one with separate MIDI & audio tracks, and where it asks you how many audio tracks, I'd select "All Mono"
In BFD, this will create a track for every single output that it exposes, including tracks for Overheads, Room mics & Ambient mics
I then change the interleave on the Overheads/Room/Ambient channels to Stereo.
When you've finished building your kit, and assigning each output to the relevant Sonar tracks, you'll end up with a few tracks with nothing assigned to them. Delete these tracks.
Insert a drum map and get it to line up with the output from Battery and you're good to go.
All your MIDI notes will be on one MIDI track and you'll have individual audio tracks for every kit piece mapped enabling you to put whatever processing you want on the kick, snare, hi-hat etc.
When you're happy with your drum tracks (performance, timing etc) FREEZE the synth.
Freezing doesn't apply your Fx to the audio, so you can carry on with your processing.
I'll give that a try. Maybe it sounds more complicated on paper then it is doing it in sonar. Once I get home from work, I'll attempt this and let you know
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/05/21 03:20:24
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Building drum maps seems really complicated at first, but once you've done 1 or 2, it simply becomes tedious.
If you've got Scott Garrigus' Power books, they provide a detailed walkthough on building & assigning drum maps
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kjs00333
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/07/28 21:00:52
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Bristol_Jonesey
Building drum maps seems really complicated at first, but once you've done 1 or 2, it simply becomes tedious.
If you've got Scott Garrigus' Power books, they provide a detailed walkthough on building & assigning drum maps
Hi Bristol, Sorry I am just getting to this now, but I have been really busy working on a different song. Anyways, I have tried what you said but I am confused on what to do at this point. I was able to get the cells in battery 3 to go to the right tracks, however when I am playing them on my keyboard, nothing is happening. Clicking the cells however, works fine. Here is a pic of the setup. Photobucket wont give me the original size :(  I am not sure what to do at this point since I have never attempted this before. What is the next step after the mono tracks are all created?
post edited by kjs00333 - 2011/07/28 21:06:23
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konradh
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/07/29 09:42:05
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I clone the track and then use Select by Filter to select the notes I don't want in each copy--then delete.
Bitflipper is right about Toms. Hi-hat is another case. I also put sidestick and snare on the same track (because in real life they would have the same ambiance and EQ). but some people split them.
That said, I may play with a combination of these two techniques: like make one clone to run CAL and split out the snare and kick, and then make other clones of the original for the Selected by Filter technique. Might save me a few minutes. Good suggestion.
I normally program each track separately, but on occasion, I pull in a MIDI pattern from a synth (e.g., a Tyros 2 style) or a loop and then edit and customize it.
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rbowser
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/07/29 10:01:54
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Hmmm - Kjs, I guess you know your picture doesn't show up at all? - If you have your drum track on one MIDI track now, selecting that track should be all you need to do to play the drums from your keyboard.
Konradh - Have you tried what's been suggested on this thread, --having one MIDI track for your drums, instead of doing all this work of breaking things down to separate tracks? As Bitflipper and others said, that only makes things more confusing. Drum kits are so simple, and when working in the PRV, it's super easy to see where each part of the kit resides. You can see the entire pattern and how all the parts are interacting, and editing is much easier.
It's the audio that you need to split out into logical, separate tracks - Kick on its own so it can be dry, Snare on its own etc - But the MIDI data is much easier to work with when it stays on one track.
Randy B.
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Ham N Egz
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/07/29 10:15:37
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there are existing drum maps for Battery, even as far as the different kits.
There is a little trick to syncing all the output ports in the drum map to the correct midi port when the battery drum map is populated , but the help shows the correct keystrokes
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Ham N Egz
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/07/29 10:15:45
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post edited by musicman100 - 2011/07/29 10:17:07
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konradh
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/07/29 13:49:29
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Randy B, Understand and agree in the case of virtual drums (like SD3). In the case of drums from an external synth, not sure how I would create separate audio easily without separating the MIDI. My go-to synths do not have enough outputs to separate the drums, and, if they did, I would not want to reconfigure for different songs as that would be more work than splitting tracks.
Also, I sometimes have an SD3 track and then decide I would prefer a sound from one of my other synths: easy to redirect the MIDI when it is separate.
So, not disagreeing--just saying that I guess it depends on the synth or VI.
Thanks.
PS Most cases, I add an SD3 instance with separate audio and MIDI to start with and then change/redirect as needed. Typical set-up is 6 tracks of MIDI and 6 of audio: Kick, Snare/Stick, Hi-Hat, Toms, Cymbals, Other Percussion. (If I were doing Latin or World music, I would have more than one percussion track. Used to do that a lot—not much lately.) I often use orchestral percussion but handle that separately since it comes from Vienna or some other non-drum machine source.
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kjs00333
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/07/29 15:00:44
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musicman100
there are existing drum maps for Battery, even as far as the different kits.
There is a little trick to syncing all the output ports in the drum map to the correct midi port when the battery drum map is populated , but the help shows the correct keystrokes
I have not seen any drum maps within Battery 3. Is there a specific place that these are located?
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kjs00333
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Re:Splitting MIDI data to new MIDI tracks
2011/07/29 15:02:49
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rbowser
Hmmm - Kjs, I guess you know your picture doesn't show up at all? - If you have your drum track on one MIDI track now, selecting that track should be all you need to do to play the drums from your keyboard.
Konradh - Have you tried what's been suggested on this thread, --having one MIDI track for your drums, instead of doing all this work of breaking things down to separate tracks? As Bitflipper and others said, that only makes things more confusing. Drum kits are so simple, and when working in the PRV, it's super easy to see where each part of the kit resides. You can see the entire pattern and how all the parts are interacting, and editing is much easier.
It's the audio that you need to split out into logical, separate tracks - Kick on its own so it can be dry, Snare on its own etc - But the MIDI data is much easier to work with when it stays on one track.
Randy B.
Hi Randy, thanks for replying. I currently have all drums going to 1 midi track, and separating them to different tracks. But I would like to have each cell going to a different MIDI track at time of recording to make things a bit easier.
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