copy pasting notes from one piano roll to another?

Hi, there must be something obvious I'm missing here, but if I copy notes from a piano roll, then open up the piano roll of another midi track in the same project, nothing gets pasted. however in track view the notes will get pasted on the other midi track if I focus it. I'll see a new clip and the notes are there. but not from one piano roll to the other. new behavior from x1 maybe?

Spencer


Hi, there must be something obvious I'm missing here, but if I copy notes from a piano roll, then open up the piano roll of another midi track in the same project, nothing gets pasted. however in track view the notes will get pasted on the other midi track if I focus it. I'll see a new clip and the notes are there. but not from one piano roll to the other. new behavior from x1 maybe?

Hi, Spencer - Yours is one of several posts I've seen in the last few months which present a problem new to me.  I haven't noticed before that some people aren't understanding how the PRV (Piano Roll View) works.

It isn't a plug-in that you use one track at a time.  It's the heart of MIDI editing in Sonar, and any other Daw actually.  You don't use multiple PRVs, there's just one, just exactly as there's only one Track View.

There's no bug involved as Simpleman hypothesized either. 

Here's what ya do - There's a menu in the PRV where you choose which tracks you want to view and/or edit.  You can view one track at a time, or as many as you want.  When you click the displayed note of one track, that activates that track, so all the highlighted notes are in that currently selected track.

To make it simple for starters, view the track you want and lasso the notes you want to copy - After copying, then choose the destination track.  Paste, Ctrl+V and it asks you what track you want to go to.  If you've selected it already, it goes there, otherwise, choose from the menu.  Now in the PRV you'll see those pasted notes appear in the right track when you have that track displayed.

BIG TIP - Leave room above the PRV for one track to be displayed from the Track View.  That way you can easily scroll around in the TV to choose tracks and see what you're doing.  If you have the free Whiz Mouse (look that up) your mouse wheel will scroll through the tracks without you having to put focus on the TV.  It will just scroll the tracks in that sliver above the PRV when you turn the wheel.

The main point I'm trying to make is that there is one PRV - It's The Editing Central for Sonar.  All tracks in your project can be accessed through it, and very deep MIDI editing can be done exclusively in there.  Copying and pasting from one track to another is MIDI 101, easily done through the steps I've dashed out in this reply.  Hope I'm at least somewhat clear.

RB

Bigdogs


That's a great tip RB. I've made a screenset with PRV + a narrow track view. 

The mouse software is great too (but it's called WizMouse)

Thanks

Simon

That's right, WizMouse - Thanks for the correction on that, Simon- makes it a little easier for people to look up that excellent free app.  I sure wouldn't want to go back to the way things worked without the WizMouse, all the constant clicking to switch focus between windows- what a pain.

A screenset with PRV and one track visible above it should be one of the default views in Sonar, I think.  It may not sound like that big of a deal, but once a user tries it, the reason it's a slick way to work becomes clear.  C&P from one track to another is one thing that is so much easier with that layout.  Select notes you want in the PRV, snap off, leaving the cursor at the first note position.  Go up to the track and with WizMouse, scroll to the destination track and select it - paste. 

Randy B.

konradh


My two cents: Whether speaking of Piano Roll or Staff, it is odd that that Sonar wants to paste back to the original track, but I've learned to live with it.

Case 1: Open Staff View of Track 1 and copy a section.  Open Staff View of Track 2 and paste.  Unless you used Paste Special, it copies into Track 1--even though you have selected and are viewing Track 2.

Case 2: If you highlight a section of Track 1 in Track View, then select Track 2 in Track View, paste will go to the right place (Track 2).

Not sure why this works the way it does, but I am pretty used to it.  If I paste and don't see the notes, my hand automatically hits Ctrl+Z and then CTRL+ALT+V.

Howdy, Konradh

You have it under control, and I know you weren't asking for help.  But I wanted to point out that how pasting behaves is actually logical:  Sonar will be paste back into the original track because that's the track currently selected.  There's no other possibility for a destination until a new choice is made after the copying.  See what I mean?

Referring to your Case 1:  There aren't separate Staff Views for each track, there's just one SV, like there's one Track View, one Console View and one Piano Roll View.  After you've made a selection of notes and copied in either PRV or SV, and then you choose to view another track where you want to paste those notes (through the SV or PRV menu)- that isn't selecting a track, that's just viewing a track.  You need to do your track selection in the Track View.

So, in your Case 2, the pasting operation goes as expected because you're actually selecting a track, not just viewing and editing clips in the track via the SV or PRV. 

That's why having a screenset with one track visible above the PRV window gives you quick access to all your editing tools.  See?

Randy B.

Hi, Spencer - I'm unable to get to my machine that has X1 on it, so I can't double check if things are working differently than what I'm used to in 8.5.  But it sounds like you're over-complicating the process, because C&P does work - unless there's some quirk in X1 I'm unaware of.

I have a copy of your last post - I'll insert comments.

Right, that's where it just doesn't work for me. After copying the notes from midi track 1, I go back to track view, focus AND select midi track 2, and then put window focus back onto the PRV...

Wait--why are you going back to the PRV before you've pasted?  Just make your selection, copy it, then click a track to select it and click CTRL+V.  That's all.

If you keep one track visible above the PRV, there really isn't any going back and forth.  You can edit some on the track, some on the notes and data in the PRV, without changing the way your screen looks.

...Paste special is the only way, but even that defaults to track 1 even though I have track 2 focused and selected both in TV and PRV. I really don't get it.

I keep it set so the paste dialogue always comes up when I'm pasting something.  And I keep that window expanded to include all choices.  You can see exactly what type of data you're pasting, and if you're not on the track where you want the paste to go, that pop-up has its own menu.  That's the other way of choosing the destination for a paste.

Randy B.

konradh


Hey, Randy.  Your logic makes sense--thanks.

Well cool, I guess my logic comes out making sense at least on occasion. 

We should keep in mind that often there's no need for C&P.  If we need a clip or segment of a clip in exactly the same position on another track, you just grab the clip and while holding Shift+CTRL, drag the clip to another track.  A copy is made and placed in exactly the same time line location.  I always have my paste set to add to, not replace - so that makes another layer in a MIDI track, but that doesn't matter.  - That copy maneuver gets the job done most of the time.  But there are cases where you're going to a different part of the time line with a copy, or you only want some of the notes in a clip - that's when the slightly more involved C&P operation is needed.

RB

Spencer

rbowser


Hi, Spencer - I'm unable to get to my machine that has X1 on it, so I can't double check if things are working differently than what I'm used to in 8.5.  But it sounds like you're over-complicating the process, because C&P does work - unless there's some quirk in X1 I'm unaware of.

I have a copy of your last post - I'll insert comments.

Right, that's where it just doesn't work for me. After copying the notes from midi track 1, I go back to track view, focus AND select midi track 2, and then put window focus back onto the PRV...

Wait--why are you going back to the PRV before you've pasted?  Just make your selection, copy it, then click a track to select it and click CTRL+V.  That's all.

Because, for example, I may want to use the PRV grid to paste the notes to a new location. A location relative to midi notes that already exist in that second track. Although, now that I think about it, I guess I can just set the now time in the first PRV and go back to track view and paste without touching my now time... but that just doesn't seem intuitive to me. Seems more like a workaround than the way it should work to me. As in, it seems to me there really should be a way to paste the notes without having the focus on track view.

Just thought about the inline PRV though, that could be a plausible solution for aligning my paste location to the visual grid I guess.

Spencer, Konradh - anyone else who may be interested.  I made a short video to show you a slick fast way to copy and paste in X1, getting the results you've been talking about on this thread.

Read the text with the vid, it explains the moves you see in the silent vid. 

Pretty sure this will help you out.

X1 C&P

EDIT-Additional:  The vid shows a straight-forward of doing C&P, but I made no mention of "Special Paste." 

Previous to X1, the paste dialogue window is what would come up with regular paste.  It has a menu for selecting destination tracks, and also for choosing and making sure you're pasting what you want.  Like many things in X1, this paste dialogue now requires more keystrokes, since the programmers lost sight of how most musicians want to be tied as little as possible to a computer keyboard. 

But that dialogue is there with CTRL+Alt+V, what used to be regular paste.  It's very useful.  But what I show in the vid works well without the paste dialogue, since you have constant visuals on what you're doing.

Randy