Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem - only when top console bar is viewable (CW ID 5429)

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JoshWolfer
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2011/05/26 00:55:02 (permalink)

Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem - only when top console bar is viewable (CW ID 5429)

Okay, so here is a weird one. I've seen this from time to time when using X1 and I could never nail it down. I finally did! Easy repro for me. I was going to video the issue and upload it so you all could see, cause I have a feeling no one is going to believe me ;)

Sometimes when stretching audio, freezing tracks, freezing synths, or bouncing a project, Sonar X1 will take pretty much FOREVER and never finish. I thought I was crazy. Some tasks will finish. Like I pitch shifted a 4s clip and it literally took 16 minutes to finish processing. But a track or project never finishes (well maybe it does in a month, but I didn't wait more than an hour).

I knew it was an X1 problem, because loading the same project in 8.5.3 works fine. 

So here's what the repro is. 

If the top tool bar is showing (C key), it breaks X1. The progress bar is supposed to show up in the bluish time box. When the tool bar is not displayed, a popup progress bar shows up and everything completes in a timely fashion. 

What's weird is the task manager CPU monitor basically does nothing when the toolbar is crunching away. 

I'm runing a 2.8Ghz core i7 with 8GB ram, so that's really not an issue. 

Weird. Anyway, there it is. I'm in patch B, but not the patch release. 

Thoughts? 

When I find my camera, I'll vid it up, cause it's crazy!

post edited by JoshWolfer - 2011/06/16 11:28:45

Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)

#1

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    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/26 01:49:39 (permalink)
    okay, here's a weird new tidbit... It even affects project save times! If the C toolbar is up, it takes 5 times longer to save my project. 

    How weird is that.

    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
    Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)

    #2
    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/26 23:13:20 (permalink)
    Found my recorder:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D8qn1ekltI

    And now prepare to be amazed at the crazies.

    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
    Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)

    #3
    Danny Danzi
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/29 09:20:30 (permalink)
    Wow Josh, I can't believe no one from the bakery saw this and responded to you. That's the weirdest thing in that vid! It doesn't do that on my end on the machines I have X1 installed on. Even my net box (stripped down Dell, 4 gig RAM, i3 processor etc) works well and freezes way faster than what you have going on there even if I have more effects present. This is something you definitely want to try to get Seth or Willy to see. I think they may have just missed this thread. I wouldn't even know where to begin here other than maybe uninstalling X1 completely, deleting all folders and then removing any existing registry keys and starting over. Something is definitely not right with that.

    Even when you do remove the bar though, it seems to take a pretty long time even for those few effects you have going on. I can freeze with my i3 box with more effects than that and be done way sooner even at what you consider "The fast speed". Something is so not right man.

    I know this is probably dumb to ask because you probably know about all this stuff, but how many things do you see running when you bring up task manager? In my experience, anything in the 50's as far as running processes has sometimes slowed me down depending on what may be running within those 50 things. My net box runs 43 things that need to be there, my recording pc runs 37 things that need to be there (both Win 7 64 using X1 32) and my lappy runs like 52 or so using Vista. Lappy sometimes slows down a bit, but I can still freeze things faster than your current fastest speed. I'd suggest sending Seth or Willie Jones a pm with the link to your vid with a short message. I think they will seriously want to see this unless they have and have contacted you already. I'm also quite surprised that no one in our community has seen anything like this. That's a killer machine you got there bro...there's no way it should be slow at anything. I wish there was something I could add that would help you here....but all I can really say is "wow...wth is causing that?!" LOL! I really hope you get it sorted out man...best of luck. 
    post edited by Danny Danzi - 2011/05/29 09:22:16

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    #4
    stratman70
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/29 10:42:15 (permalink)
    JoshWolfer


    okay, here's a weird new tidbit... It even affects project save times! If the C toolbar is up, it takes 5 times longer to save my project. 

    How weird is that.

    The only "live" adio tracks I use are my guitars and my vocals. Bass, Drums, Keyboards are ALL midi. So ,to say the least i am a bouncing fool. I have never ever had the problem you are reporting. I am not saying you aren't having it, I am sure you are.
    I "always" have that toolbar at the top, always and never a hitch. Bounces like 853 and saves faster than 853.
    I never time stretch but I had to test it. Did a 2 minute vocal. No problems, zipped right thru it.
    So,...............................Maybe in your setup, PC, whatever
    Hope you figure it out, I cannot reproduce it all and you reproduce it at will, so that should tell you something.
    Sorry I couldn't help.

     
     
    #5
    rbowser
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/29 13:18:41 (permalink)
    I thought the problem of freezing, bouncing, exporting with the tool bar showing was well known?--solution being to always minimize it during those routines.  But I also thought this was one of the things addressed in one of the updates?

    I'm not sure because I'm currently having to use a computer without my X1 on it.

    Randy B.

    Sonar X3e Studio
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    Alesis i|O2 interface
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    with dual monitors
    #6
    stratman70
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/29 15:53:05 (permalink)
    rbowser


    I thought the problem of freezing, bouncing, exporting with the tool bar showing was well known?--solution being to always minimize it during those routines.  But I also thought this was one of the things addressed in one of the updates?

    I'm not sure because I'm currently having to use a computer without my X1 on it.

    Randy B.

    Hi Randy
    As I stated above, I never close the toolbar on the top-why I don't know. Possibly because I just like the track view. For me it works best. I am presently at the 246 1XB build. But I never had that issue at all-including 1X all the way until present? Strange, because as I stated I am a bouncing softsynth fool. EAxporting works fine also. Don't doubt it exists, just never showed it's face for me.
    You know with all this weirdness where some have a definite issue and others don't leads me to believe that X1 is just way more fickle than 853. I do not remember this many issues with 853, especially all the basic task issues.
    Hopefully we will see an end to it.

     
     
    #7
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/29 16:09:27 (permalink)
    What happens if you have SONAR displayed in the other monitor?

    I only ask because the issue some how seems display related.

    I think you did a great job by gong to the trouble of showing us what you are up against.

    Good luck,
    mike


    #8
    HumbleNoise
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/29 17:23:19 (permalink)
    Josh, Try adjusting the Preferences>Audio>Configuration File>BounceBufSizeMsec. Start with '0' and go up from there. I'll see if I can find the settings from other posts.

    Here's one link. Apparently Sonar defaults this value to the latency setting but should be set to zero to up as high as 100?

    http://forum.cakewalk.com/fb.ashx?m=2238329

    Search for 'BounceBufSizeMsec' Hope that helps.
    post edited by HumbleNoise - 2011/05/29 17:28:52

    Humbly Yours

    Larry

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    #9
    backwoods
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/29 20:21:04 (permalink)
    Hey Josh,

    I had this exact same problem happening to me 100 per cent of the time. I submitted a report and when trying to formalize an exact recipe I could no longer reproduce it. It hasn't happened to me since.


    #10
    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/05/31 20:24:30 (permalink)
    @HumbleNoise

    I'll play with that. Thanks for the tip!

    As for other things loaded / running, I keep this PC dedicated to audio / video. There isn't much loaded. 







    No games or cracked software. Minimal browsing (all through a secure browser like Opera). Carbonite only runs at nightime.

    Pretty straightforward. 

    Cheers guys!

    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
    Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)

    #11
    daryl1968
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/06/01 08:01:17 (permalink)
    Josh - exactly the same happens to me.
    To be honest, I rarely have the control bar showing but when it is and I bounce - it takes forever. When I don't have it open - the bounce takes no time at all.
    I also have the problem with the control bar disappearing.
    I set my preferences/buffer size etc long ago'
    Spooky
    #12
    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/06/01 18:21:59 (permalink)
    I wonder if it's our CPUs. Your system looks near identical to mine, in almost every way but the IO. 

    I thought it might be the parked CPU issue at first, so I did the regedit to unpark them, but that made no diff for this issue. I did notice that more of my CPUs were used for other things though.

    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
    Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)

    #13
    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/06/03 11:00:38 (permalink)
    So, after changing the BounceBufSizeMsec to 100, it didn't fix the issue, but it also introduced a new issue.


    The bounce is off in timing. The audio tracks are delayed slightly behind the soft synths (BFD2 primarily). So I put it back to 0 and now it bounces in time again.

    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
    Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)

    #14
    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/06/16 11:28:11 (permalink)
    This has been filed with Cakewalk as ID 5429

    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
    Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)

    #15
    JoshWolfer
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/06/16 12:16:19 (permalink)
    Booyah:

    "This is confirmation that we have been able to reproduce the behavior you are experiencing. We have logged this issue as an official report with our development team for further review and hope to have it addressed in a future release."


    I should have started submitting bug reports in the past =). 


    Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp)
    Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)

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    daryl1968
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    Re:Weird X1 Freeze / bounce problem.... only when top console bar is viewable.... 2011/06/16 12:31:34 (permalink)
    You rock
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