mick@itc
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Its a mess...
Hi all
Through a combination of me being "too smart for my own good" and general bad houskeeping my machine is a mess and I now cant get things like Dim Pro and Rapture to work....
One of the reasons for this mess is the fact that I decided to have an external hard drive for all samples, loops etc. In theory this is a good idea...BUT for me it didn't work. I am unable (don't know how) to point the various soft synths to the right places and I have a laptop so that I can compose flexibly...when away from my desk. But my external is on the desk and when I go to do anything away fromt he desk...guess what...no samples, kits etc. Also my machine has slowed down SO MUCH. So overall ...its a mess. It is beginning to get to the stage that I am not doing as much music as I used to because I hate dealing with all the technical issues when I am in the mood for composing...I get sh1tty with the whole thing and walk away. want to get back to ...turn it on...capture the idea...and build on it as I go...
What am I doing about it...?
Two things I am planning to do and want to check here that a)...they are sensible...and b) thow best to do them.
First, I am going to move to 64bit W7 from 32bit W7. What I have read suggests to me that it is a complete seperate install...so thats leads me down the second track. I will need to install 64 bit versions fo the programs. So I think I might just put a weekend away and uninstall EVERYTHING and reinstall EVERYTHING. Sounds a bit drastic but I want to do the job right ...not end up with a half baked solution.
My inventory of programs are...
Sonar X1 Producer with all the normal hangers on;
Melodyne;
Sound Forge;
Sony Vegas;
EZ Drummer;
Ozone 4;
NI Komplete 7 with some expansion elements;
Altiverb;
My Machine is a HP DV7 laptop 8 gig,RAM, two 7200rpm hard drives. Will be putting everything on these two drives and only using the external drive as a back-up.
Would like to hear any feedback on this plan...regardless of good news, bad news or opinions...
Thansk in advanse.
Mick
Mick from Oz. HP DV7-3008tx , Sonar 8.5 PE, Komplete 6, GPO, JABB, Ozone 4, Melodyne Studio & DNA
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chuckebaby
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/27 00:00:02
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dude..you got 8 gigs of ram..put this stuff on your main drive..you probably have 500 gigs right?..do another install and get everything out..including reg files..if you need to know which ones p.message me,then install all on your c:/drive.
ive been running pretty sweet..but ever since i installed those free raptire,demension pro packs theyve been whacked
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
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JoshWolfer
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/27 00:11:04
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Complete nuke and start over. It sucks, but you'll be glad you did. When I had to reinstall, it was a full weekend job. Of course part of that is because Komplete 7 is like 20 DVDs, but yeah.
It's totally worth it and having 8GB on a 32 bit system is a travesty ;)
Josh Wolfer - Big Dumb Monkey Productions - www.bigdumbmonkey.com (Twitter @bigdumbmonkeyp) Sonar 8.5.3 / X1b :: 2.8 Ghz core i7 :: 8GB ram :: V-Studio 700 C+R :: Maudio Profire 2626 (ADAT lightpipe into Vstudio)
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jbraner
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/27 05:36:01
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I agree with Josh. A question though (maybe to start a group discussion)
How will you use the 2 disk?
- programs and samples on A, record audio on B?
or
- programs on A, audio on a partion on B, samples on another partition on B?
or something else.
We may as well get this right ;-)
PS - double check that Altiverb will be happy running on 64 bit. (NOTE if bitbridge doesn't work for any of your plugins, invest in jbridge - it's cheap)
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wormser
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/27 08:21:51
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I agree with the others.
Nuke it.
You will save time in the long run.
Also, you probably know this already but if you have stuff like Ivory or Kontakt libraries, you DON'T NEED to re-install the actual libraries, usually. Just copy them to where you want them, run the install programs and point them to the already installed libraries. This works for most of these type of programs and will save you a lot of time.
Windows 8 x64 Intel i7 950 3.06ghz 6 GB DDR3 1333(1066) OCZ memory Gigabyte X58A-UD3R v.2.0 Delta 66. Seagate 1.0tb drives x4 OS, Audio, VST, Backup Stuff. Mackie MCU Pro Latest. Faderport. Sonar X2, PreSonus 2.x, Reaper.
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agundrum
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/27 09:46:45
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Whenever I see "machine has slowed down SO MUCH" I have to ask if the machine being used is dedicated to just being a DAW. Maybe it is dedicated but the OP did not state either way. If its used to surf, check email, Office is installed then there are definitely going to be problems. A shared system for DAW work is always a bad idea. Also, if the system has not been optimized completely for audio/video is also an issue. This wasn't stated in the OP either. When I installed a fresh retail version of Win7 64-bit I decided to try it without doing any OS tweaks. Just to see the kind of issues it may or may not have. One or two track recordings were OK. But when more tracks and plug-ins were added performance was completely unacceptable. DPC Latency Checker confirmed issues and all tweaks were done making the system very stable. As for suggestions my first is I would install a fresh copy of Window 7 64-bit - this means formattting the drive and starting completely from scratch. Make sure to backup everything you want to that external drive first. What I've found in 25+ years of computer experience both professionally and personally is you have to be very systematic in installing everything from the start. Install the OS then plan on installing all the applications one by one. Reboot between each install, install individual updates to each program before moving on to the next program install. If a program relies on or integrates with another program make sure the other program is installed first. Yes, this takes time, but done right you'll run into less problems. Speaking of problems. If you run into a problem when installing a program - STOP and do not install the next program until the issue is resolved. I can't tell you how many times I've talked with users who've installed programs with errors only later to find out they ignored the errors and didn't inform support of them. Oh, and read the installation documentation and read me's you are asked to read after a program installation. It's amazing how much information relative to the installation is in them. Manufacturer's actually do want you to read these. It helps the user and minimizes support calls. I've seen plenty posts asking for help on things I know were in the installation docs or supplemental readme. RT*M External drive: Best for backups but can be used to store sample libaries. I wouldn't put soft synth libraries like for BFD2, DimPro, SD, etc on an external drive though because these apps rely on the presence of the drive. If you decide to use an external drive for sample libaries make sure you setup SONAR to enable per-project audio found under Preferences -> File - Audio Data. SONAR by default does not save copies of audio files per project so turning it on will copy any samples used in a project from the ext drive put them in the project's audio folder. Doing this makes backing up each project much easier too since files are all-in-one.
post edited by agundrum - 2011/05/27 09:50:50
John ------ SONAR X1 Producer, Adobe CS5 Master Collection, Gigabyte EP45-DS3R MB, Intel Core 2 Quad @ 2.66GHz, 4GB RAM, VisionTek Radeon HD 4850 video, 600W P/S, 4 SATA 7200RPM drives (1.8TB), DVD DL reader/re-writer, E-Mu 1820m Audio, Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, dual 22" displays
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CBJ
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/27 16:39:31
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Before you move on I think you need to fully understand the structure that is needed to make a DAW work and allows you the user to fully be in control of hardware & software. This makes things easier to fix and provides a flow that is easy to follow. I have been sequencing since 1987 and have adopted some steadfast rules and laws that I follow whenever I build a system for myself, my studio, or build one for one of my friends. My experience has led me to build things the same way each and every time so I don’t wind up re-inventing the wheel. Absolute system requirements! · Hard drives must have a minimum of 7,200 rpm to be used for audio & video work. · If you are to use Firewire the computer must have a TI (Texas Instruments) interface either on board or being used by the adaptor card manufacturer. · For anyone employing VI (Virtual Instrument) plugins it is imperative to have the samples (not the program that runs these samples) on a separate hard drive. · Streaming! o The recorded audio is being saved to a hard drive in real time requires a separate hard drive. o Previous audio that has been recorded can be played back at the same time the recorded tracks are being saved. Summary · Hard drive & Folder structure (absolute minimum of 3 hard drives) o 1 C:\Studio 1 . . System and Program Drive § Audio § Documents & Settings § Program Files § Windows o 1 I:\VI’s . . Virtual Instrument Sample Drive (External Drive) § Native Instruments § Toontrack § Gigastudio o 1 J:\Wave . . Recording drive (External Drive) § WAV § WOV § SEQ · USB 2.0, Firewire A, or Esata protocol? o USB 2.0 @ 480 mb per second data transfer rate o Firewire a @ 400 mb per second data transfer rate o Esata (true bidirectional) @ 1.5 gb per second data transfer rate My experience after testing all these protocols was to stick with Esata. I have tried USB 2.0 with dismal results and in some cases depending on how many tracks I was recording at the same time it would not work at all. OK where does all this stuff get installed? Windows default is to throw it into a folder called "Program Files". In this way at least every piece of software you install should be in one place! I go a step further with all my music program installations and create a folder called Audio on the C:\ Drive and then divide it as follows! C:\Audio - Effects
- Reverbs
- Dynamics
- EQ
- VST Plugins
- Etc, Etc.
Sequencers - Sonar
- Cubase
- Pro-Tools
- Etc, Etc.
VI’s (Virtual Instruments) - Toontrack
- Dimension Pro
- Gigastudio
- VST Plugins
- Etc, Etc.
Utility - Sound Forge
- Mid Quest
- Etc, Etc.
I think you get the idea. Don’t forget that a lot of stuff will not work in 64 bit because certain vendors do not produce drivers or software that work in that environment. Another hint is using a program such as Norton Ghost to clone a drive once it is working so it can be restored at a later date if things go bad for you due to a bad installation of newly added sortware. This software has saved me thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours along with the frustration that goes with re-constructing the whole mess from scratch. When using Norton Ghost it should be installed on a different computer and used with an external hard drive enclosure so you can remove the drive from the computer you are going to back up. I have an assortment of external hard drive cases that can accommodate the various drive sizes (2.5 & 3.5") and different connectors (sata/ide). I use an additional extrnal 2tb dedicated hard drive that has a folder for each computer in the studio and then I store all the upgrades in a separate file that encompases the date and a numeric number that I issue to increment the saved file. Since only the OS and the programs are on the boot disk the size of the save is usually 15gb, so it takes no time at all to save & restore the info. If on the other hand you have audio samples on that drive you would need a lot of space to do an image (save) of all the data. The samples and wave files never screw up so that’s the reason to keep it separate with no need to save it elsewhere! I do create backup drives of this data incase the VI and Wave drives are reaching the end of their life expecatancy. My external drives are always labeled I:\Samples and J:\Wave and I connect these to whichever computer I am using at the time. In the laptop that gets used for live recording we use 2 internal 500gb 7200rpm drives but only drive C:\Acer is used. Drive D:\Utility drive is only there as a utility drive and does not get used in the recording process. I then connect my 2 external drives via the Esata and can record through the firewire where my Presonus 24.4.2 is connected. I normally take 32 tracks at once and when I’m finished I disconnect the 2 external hard drives and connect them to one of the desktop systems to complete the mixing and any post production. On each computer that you have Sonar X1 installed you can go to Preferences>Folder Locations & >Audio Data to tell Sonar where the VI (Virtual Instruments) & Wav (wave data) is located. In each of the VI plug ins (while using the current computer) you are able to select the folder where the Wave data is being stored by the Virtual Instrument. Hope this sheds some light on your dilemma and if you need any more help let me know!.
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mick@itc
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/29 23:15:40
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agundrum
Whenever I see "machine has slowed down SO MUCH" I have to ask if the machine being used is dedicated to just being a DAW. Maybe it is dedicated but the OP did not state either way. If its used to surf, check email, Office is installed then there are definitely going to be problems. A shared system for DAW work is always a bad idea.
Also, if the system has not been optimized completely for audio/video is also an issue. This wasn't stated in the OP either. When I installed a fresh retail version of Win7 64-bit I decided to try it without doing any OS tweaks. Just to see the kind of issues it may or may not have. One or two track recordings were OK. But when more tracks and plug-ins were added performance was completely unacceptable. DPC Latency Checker confirmed issues and all tweaks were done making the system very stable.
As for suggestions my first is I would install a fresh copy of Window 7 64-bit - this means formattting the drive and starting completely from scratch. Make sure to backup everything you want to that external drive first.
What I've found in 25+ years of computer experience both professionally and personally is you have to be very systematic in installing everything from the start. Install the OS then plan on installing all the applications one by one. Reboot between each install, install individual updates to each program before moving on to the next program install. If a program relies on or integrates with another program make sure the other program is installed first. Yes, this takes time, but done right you'll run into less problems.
Speaking of problems. If you run into a problem when installing a program - STOP and do not install the next program until the issue is resolved. I can't tell you how many times I've talked with users who've installed programs with errors only later to find out they ignored the errors and didn't inform support of them.
Oh, and read the installation documentation and read me's you are asked to read after a program installation. It's amazing how much information relative to the installation is in them. Manufacturer's actually do want you to read these. It helps the user and minimizes support calls. I've seen plenty posts asking for help on things I know were in the installation docs or supplemental readme. RT*M
External drive: Best for backups but can be used to store sample libaries. I wouldn't put soft synth libraries like for BFD2, DimPro, SD, etc on an external drive though because these apps rely on the presence of the drive.
If you decide to use an external drive for sample libaries make sure you setup SONAR to enable per-project audio found under Preferences -> File - Audio Data. SONAR by default does not save copies of audio files per project so turning it on will copy any samples used in a project from the ext drive put them in the project's audio folder. Doing this makes backing up each project much easier too since files are all-in-one.
Hi there...thanks for the input. Some answers... The machine is for Audio and Video, nothing else. Has network access to download updates etc... Not optimised for Audio. Used to do that with XP but have not found a how to optimise for W7. Do you know a site??? Re formatting the hard drive...A technical question. When I format the drive, how does the machine cope with that given the machine will DOS boot from the C drive. Can someone post instructions for how you actually format a disk on the machin=e and then load W7 64 back on. Does it automatically boot off the CD drive? Again, thanks for the feedback... Mick
Mick from Oz. HP DV7-3008tx , Sonar 8.5 PE, Komplete 6, GPO, JABB, Ozone 4, Melodyne Studio & DNA
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mick@itc
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/29 23:36:39
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CBJ
Before you move on I think you need to fully understand the structure that is needed to make a DAW work and allows you the user to fully be in control of hardware & software. This makes things easier to fix and provides a flow that is easy to follow.
I have been sequencing since 1987 and have adopted some steadfast rules and laws that I follow whenever I build a system for myself, my studio, or build one for one of my friends. My experience has led me to build things the same way each and every time so I don’t wind up re-inventing the wheel.
Absolute system requirements!
· Hard drives must have a minimum of 7,200 rpm to be used for audio & video work.
· If you are to use Firewire the computer must have a TI (Texas Instruments) interface either on board or being used by the adaptor card manufacturer.
· For anyone employing VI (Virtual Instrument) plugins it is imperative to have the samples (not the program that runs these samples) on a separate hard drive.
· Streaming!
o The recorded audio is being saved to a hard drive in real time requires a separate hard drive.
o Previous audio that has been recorded can be played back at the same time the recorded tracks are being saved.
Summary
· Hard drive & Folder structure (absolute minimum of 3 hard drives)
o 1 C:\Studio 1 . . System and Program Drive
§ Audio
§ Documents & Settings
§ Program Files
§ Windows
o 1 I:\VI’s . . Virtual Instrument Sample Drive (External Drive)
§ Native Instruments
§ Toontrack
§ Gigastudio
o 1 J:\Wave . . Recording drive (External Drive)
§ WAV
§ WOV
§ SEQ
· USB 2.0, Firewire A, or Esata protocol?
o USB 2.0 @ 480 mb per second data transfer rate
o Firewire a @ 400 mb per second data transfer rate
o Esata (true bidirectional) @ 1.5 gb per second data transfer rate
My experience after testing all these protocols was to stick with Esata. I have tried USB 2.0 with dismal results and in some cases depending on how many tracks I was recording at the same time it would not work at all.
OK where does all this stuff get installed? Windows default is to throw it into a folder called "Program Files". In this way at least every piece of software you install should be in one place! I go a step further with all my music program installations and create a folder called Audio on the C:\
Drive and then divide it as follows!
C:\Audio
- Effects
- Reverbs
- Dynamics
- EQ
- VST Plugins
- Etc, Etc.
Sequencers
- Sonar
- Cubase
- Pro-Tools
- Etc, Etc.
VI’s (Virtual Instruments)
- Toontrack
- Dimension Pro
- Gigastudio
- VST Plugins
- Etc, Etc.
Utility
- Sound Forge
- Mid Quest
- Etc, Etc.
I think you get the idea. Don’t forget that a lot of stuff will not work in 64 bit because certain vendors do not produce drivers or software that work in that environment.
Another hint is using a program such as Norton Ghost to clone a drive once it is working so it can be restored at a later date if things go bad for you due to a bad installation of newly added sortware. This software has saved me thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours along with the frustration that goes with re-constructing the whole mess from scratch.
When using Norton Ghost it should be installed on a different computer and used with an external hard drive enclosure so you can remove the drive from the computer you are going to back up. I have an assortment of external hard drive cases that can accommodate the various drive sizes (2.5 & 3.5") and different connectors (sata/ide). I use an additional extrnal 2tb dedicated hard drive that has a folder for each computer in the studio and then I store all the upgrades in a separate file that encompases the date and a numeric number that I issue to increment the saved file.
Since only the OS and the programs are on the boot disk the size of the save is usually 15gb, so it takes no time at all to save & restore the info. If on the other hand you have audio samples on that drive you would need a lot of space to do an image (save) of all the data.
The samples and wave files never screw up so that’s the reason to keep it separate with no need to save it elsewhere! I do create backup drives of this data incase the VI and Wave drives are reaching the end of their life expecatancy.
My external drives are always labeled I:\Samples and J:\Wave and I connect these to whichever computer I am using at the time. In the laptop that gets used for live recording we use 2 internal 500gb 7200rpm drives but only drive C:\Acer is used. Drive D:\Utility drive is only there as a utility drive and does not get used in the recording process. I then connect my 2 external drives via the Esata and can record through the firewire where my Presonus 24.4.2 is connected. I normally take 32 tracks at once and when I’m finished I disconnect the 2 external hard drives and connect them to one of the desktop systems to complete the mixing and any post production.
On each computer that you have Sonar X1 installed you can go to Preferences>Folder Locations & >Audio Data to tell Sonar where the VI (Virtual Instruments) & Wav (wave data) is located.
In each of the VI plug ins (while using the current computer) you are able to select the folder where the Wave data is being stored by the Virtual Instrument.
Hope this sheds some light on your dilemma and if you need any more help let me know!.
Hi and Thanks This is a good read and I need to get some clarification. I'm still not sure the pecking order of the various groups of files. My situation is that I bought a laptop so that I could flexibly record. The limitation that this has put on me is that I have two internal drives and one esata external drive. One of the issues I have aroudn the flexibility is that I have to carry the esata around and set the thing up everytime I want ot grab some ideas. SO I am looking to "simplify" the set-up with everythign self contained on the laptop. The esata will be relegated to the back-up drive. So my question is...given two drives (both 7200rpm), where would you put the various folders... My best guess at the moment is... OS, Program files on one drive and Audio, Video DATA write and VI Samples & Midis, etc to Disk 2. Does this make sense???? Thanks again... Mick
Mick from Oz. HP DV7-3008tx , Sonar 8.5 PE, Komplete 6, GPO, JABB, Ozone 4, Melodyne Studio & DNA
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mbot 
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/30 05:30:01
(permalink)
Too smart for your own good? Maybe, but then that would mean you know about registry cleaners right!? If you don't and you do say your computer is slow has slowed down a lot. Get advanced "system care 4". It's free and actually works, better than paid ones even. It sent my totally subverted system into the next century and got rid of tonnes of problems. That may help. it doesn't interfere with any legitimate programs but does a total of 8 different tasks to get you back on track as if you had done a complete reinstall with a new OS, and it's optimised for windows 7. If not, then get Cubase 6, its better than Sonar and has a better interface and better quality tools.
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jm24
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/30 18:17:17
(permalink)
Slowed down?
All at once?
Slow computer: real player, quicktime, adobe, flash, java, windows, av, google:::: all load at start and then attempt to update. Gotta stop them from loading in the beginning. This is most likely the slowing. But would need a look at the processes, and msconfig, lists.
And other scheduled tasks.
Do the event logs provide any clues as to what is erroring, timing-out, not loading,...?
I have the main disk partitioned: w7 32 on one partition, w7 64 on the second.
All samples,.. on 2nd disk
All audio on third
Partitioning for other reasons (samples on separate partition) will slow reponse. Don't do it. The smae heads have to update 2 files tables,....
It may be your favorite plugs will not play happy on 64. And you will want to save/import all your saved presets,...
============
Lots of stuff to do to make w7 faster: stop processes, change pagefile settings, indexer,...
Set page file to system managed. Do not set min/max sizes. Stop page file on audio disk.
Set processes for programs for sonar. Not sure about the others. (asio is a daughter process for sonar.)
And could be you got infected. Porn site do have some good music, but the risk???
J
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guitartrek
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/30 21:07:32
(permalink)
I'm running a quad i5 with 8gb ram with Win7 64 and X1 64. I've got some larger libriary stuff like SuperiorDrummer2 and Trilian. I've got everything on my main 7200rpm drive. I've got complex songs with triggered soft synths. I don't even need to freeze the soft synths with my setup like I did on my last system. It is smoking hot - the CPU barely breaks a sweat. I know everyone likes to put big libraries on separate drives, and maybe that's still important for people that need extremely low latency? Maybe when recording multiple audio tracks at the same time? Not sure, but it doesn't matter for me. The guideline of putting big files on separate drives was born 15 years ago when computers were really slow. The speed of busses and CPU's is totally different now. 7200rpm hard drives are important though. I love my no hassle laptop setup. I can take my laptop everywhere and everything is setup perfectly. You can distribute your files amongst your 2 sata drives if you want. On my last DAW laptop I had two Sata drives and made one of them a backup drive in addition to an external backup drive. As for Win7 tweaks there really isn't much to do. With the laptop you'll want to check your power strategy but you don't have to change things like in XP.
post edited by guitartrek - 2011/05/30 22:21:35
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mick@itc
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Re:Its a mess...
2011/05/30 23:12:09
(permalink)
guitartrek
I'm running a quad i5 with 8gb ram with Win7 64 and X1 64. I've got some larger libriary stuff like SuperiorDrummer2 and Trilian. I've got everything on my main 7200rpm drive. I've got complex songs with triggered soft synths. I don't even need to freeze the soft synths with my setup like I did on my last system. It is smoking hot - the CPU barely breaks a sweat. I know everyone likes to put big libraries on separate drives, and maybe that's still important for people that need extremely low latency? Maybe when recording multiple audio tracks at the same time? Not sure, but it doesn't matter for me. The guideline of putting big files on separate drives was born 15 years ago when computers were really slow. The speed of busses and CPU's is totally different now. 7200rpm hard drives are important though. I love my no hassle laptop setup. I can take my laptop everywhere and everything is setup perfectly. You can distribute your files amongst your 2 sata drives if you want. On my last DAW laptop I had two Sata drives and made one of them a backup drive in addition to an external backup drive.
As for Win7 tweaks there really isn't much to do. With the laptop you'll want to check your power strategy but you don't have to change things like in XP.
This is good to hear. I am lucky enough to have two drives in the laptop so it looks like things should be sweet. Thanks Mick
Mick from Oz. HP DV7-3008tx , Sonar 8.5 PE, Komplete 6, GPO, JABB, Ozone 4, Melodyne Studio & DNA
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