Please help a nOOb

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ReverendP
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2011/06/03 06:29:28 (permalink)

Please help a nOOb

I just don't get it. Let's say I open a new midi file project, in this case Adagio for Strings. There are several midi tracks, violin 1, violin 2, viola etc. How can I play the piece using the Cakewalk Sound Center instruments?
 
Thanks in advance for your help.
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/03 08:05:15 (permalink)
    You must learn about soft synths and how to insert them.

    Visit my web site for some info on midi and synths.

    You obviously have the data source tracks with the midi, you need to: 

    1. insert or load a synth into an audio track.
    2 tell the midi track to send it's data to that particular synth instance
    3 choose a patch, or sample, or in sound center, an instrument to play the midi.

    my website explains this step by step.

    BUT..... since you are new, what soundcard are you using?  As you step through the process on my site, you will need to insert YOUR soundcard where I talk about the Saffire (my card) AND, you need to have the correct drivers working.

    Since midi is more complicated, I usually recommend that people get the AUDIO working first. Most of the demo projects are midi, but you can import any mp3 or wave file into a new project to test and get the audio working.   Open a new project, click and select an audio track, click FILE IMPORT AUDIO and navigate to the mp3 and click OK. then click play.


    Oh yeah... be patient. Lots of good people here will help you get started, but it might take some time and can be a bit frustrating as you learn this new hobby.
    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/06/03 08:06:39

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    #2
    Beagle
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/03 09:42:04 (permalink)
    cakewalk sound center will require a separate instance for EACH MIDI TRACK because it is NOT multitimbral.  TTS-1 will let you use up to 16 channels per instance of it opened.

    so to use soundcenter for what you're wanting to do, you'd need to open soundcenter, set the patch for the first MIDI track, say violin 1.  then open another instance and set the patch for the 2nd midi track, say upright bass 1, etc, etc.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    #3
    ReverendP
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/03 21:29:23 (permalink)
    Thanks but....
    I do not know what "set the patch" means. I really feel this program is not intuitive at all. I've used many software programs, but this is frustrating. The only reason I'm bothering with it at all is that the other DAW I have won't let me use the Soundcenter because it's exclusive...
    Could someone please walk me through it step by step.
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    57Gregy
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/03 23:27:19 (permalink)
    Click Insert at the top of the MC screen, then Soft Synths>your desired soft synth.
    If you already have MIDI tracks with data (notes) in them, uncheck the box Create MIDI Source Track. If you're starting from scratch, check the box and it will insert a synth and a MIDI track with it's output already set to the synth.
    For TTS-1, you can send up to 16 MIDI tracks to it; it's multi-timbral. Sound Center is not, so for each MIDI track you want to play through SC you must Insert a seperate SC.
    Now in the MIDI tracks, select different channels for each track. Set the output of each MIDI track to the synth you want to use. Some synths like TTS-1 have many Banks of instruments, so you need to select a bank for those synths, and probably something like Preset Normal. Then set the 'patch', the instrument sound you want it to play. That's a leftover from old synthesizers where you had to physically plug (patch) cables to different oscillators and filters to get different sounds.
    If all is right with the world, you'll get sound out of the synth.
    For what it's worth, a good reading of the Help files, especially the Getting Started section will help you, well, get started.

    Greg 
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    #5
    ReverendP
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/04 13:31:18 (permalink)
    Thanks. I read the help files but found them confusing. I guess i'm not smart enough to understand them. oh well.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/04 17:06:35 (permalink)
    Rev... be patient, and take your time. Try to get one thing at a time working. We all started out dumb as rocks when it came to this stuff. It takes time to learn it and contrary to the name "Cakewalk" it is usually not one when you are getting started.

    Once you get a few things figured out.... you start building on that and before long, you are composing and recording entire songs.

    DO you have sound from AUDIO working yet? You must have that working first before you try to tackle the midi stuff.

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    Beagle
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/04 17:12:50 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    Rev... be patient, and take your time. Try to get one thing at a time working. We all started out dumb as rocks when it came to this stuff. It takes time to learn it and contrary to the name "Cakewalk" it is usually not one when you are getting started.

    Once you get a few things figured out.... you start building on that and before long, you are composing and recording entire songs.

    DO you have sound from AUDIO working yet? You must have that working first before you try to tackle the midi stuff.

    speak for yourself! 
     
    rev - check out guitarhacker's website about working with MIDI.  he's got it in layman's terms and that might help some.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/04 17:20:38 (permalink)
    I was speaking for myself.......... if you remember it took me the better part of 2 weeks to get sound... I remember you telling me to chill out and focus on one thing at a time.....

    But...Rev.... I eventually got it all figured out, and now I can make some pretty cool things happen in this small studio.

    Like Beagle said, go to my web site and take your time reading the pages on MC4 & 5.... there are some good things there in layman's language... because I remember how hard it was for me.

    Then take a listen to some of my music.  All that is done in MC. The beginner's DAW.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    Beagle
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/04 19:49:56 (permalink)
    I remember you telling me to chill out and focus on one thing at a time.....



    sounds like good advice!!!

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/04 20:39:29 (permalink)
    now I find myself repeating that advice to new folks here from time to time.

    And when things get rough.... I still go back to the basics and start from there.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #11
    ReverendP
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/05 19:16:20 (permalink)
    First off I appreciate your time spent answering my questions. Like all of us I'm working with limited time (Fatherhood, single-parenthood, work etc.)
     
    Before posting a question here I did everything I thought I could do on my own as far as reading the provided manual, help files etc. Even after getting an initial answer and going to the website given I still felt confused. 
    1)    Yes I have audio working. I've dicked around with Cakewalk and have a basic understanding of DAWs if not a deep knowledge of them. I've listened to all the sounds on the Cakewalk Soundcenter both by triggering them with the mouse and connecting a controller keyboard via USB. I've loaded midi files and gotten them to play back using the default wavetable synth. I've downloaded a number of VSTs and played them via mouse and midi keyboard. I'm considering using Cakewalk as my preferred DAW (mainly because I already bought and paid for it.) However there are similarly priced DAWs that do more, are more powerful and I've "heard" are more user friendly. Certainly a full Abelton Live 8 suite would be preferable to any Cakewalk or Sonar product. I own a Roland XP-80 workstation and though it sounds fantastic, the manual is virtually incomprehensible. As pointed out in The History of Roland, they are notorious for this.
    2)    MC5 could be the greatest thing since sliced bread, grind and brew my coffee for me in the morning too, but if you can't get anything done efficiently, then it is useless. Especially if Cakewalk is supposedly for beginners.
    3)    The good news is I got it working. Beagle's post helped me understand a little bit and I figured it out. But - and there's always a but - I saved my Adagio for Strings project with all the midi tracks set up to play individual instances of the Cakewalk Soundcenter synth. But when I reopened it the next day all the Soundcenter tracks were now midi tracks and I had to start all over again. I'm sure this was due to some sort of user error, but for the love of Pete why wouldn't it save the project the way it was when I hit save? It's ridiculous that there must be some sort of setting, buried in yet another drop down menu to tell it to just save my work! Arrrg.
    4)    Question: How do I save my project?
    5)    Can I use TTS-1 as the sound source for midi track 1, use Soundcenter on midi tracks 2-4 and another VST on track 5? Is there some special trick beyond what has already been discussed here?
     
    #12
    RobertB
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/05 23:15:42 (permalink)
    Beagle, I remember when you were a pup here.
    I was still growing into my feet at the same time


    Rev, what you are experiencing is most likely embedded code in the MIDI files you are using. Are these MIDI files you downloaded or obtained from another source?
    They are usually configured for GM(general MIDI), and will initialize to GM playback. Because this is preset at the source, it can override your own settings.
    When you open the project, look at the track pane(s). I'm guessing the track output changes to the first available GM synth (the Wavetable synth?) Do the Bank and Patch fields populate? This is a dead giveaway.
     You can open the Event List and delete this data.
    Fwiw, TTS-1 is a GM softsynth, and if you set up a project with only TTS-1 available as as output choice, MC should automatically follow the presets, and channels and patches will follow suite, with little if any effort on your part. The Wavetable synth behaves the same way for playback, but is difficult to work with in a project.
    If you create MIDI tracks from scratch, that sort of thing should not be a problem.
    re #5, yes. Assuming there are no embedded presets in the MIDI files, you can direct the MIDI track outputs freely, and mix and match at will. You can even change them around if you want to, provided there is nothing at the start of the file that tells the program to do something else.

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    Robomusic
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/06 01:07:23 (permalink)
    I was here before all of you, and I still feel like a moron sometimes for the dumb things i do.

    Rev here is the skinny. Stop fooling with sound center until you have a working midi file.

    Open up the synth rack and insert Rolands TTS synth then select that for each midi track, and hit play. You should have all the instruments playing.

    Now reopen the synth rack, and in the second position add sound center, and add a violin sound and go just to ONE of the violin tracks and change it to use Sound Center.

    Now go back and open the synth rack, and add sound center again, and add the instrument you want and change the synth assignment of another track to that one.

    Now hit play, and two tracks will play thru the two sound centers, and the other track(s) will still play thru TTS.

    Now think about it for a while. This is the formula add one more sound center, and change one more track over to it.

    Heck i even beat Greg here by a day!!

    Actually i had another account that i forgot the password and account ID for even before that i think.
    post edited by Robomusic - 2011/06/06 01:09:22

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/06 08:05:53 (permalink)
    When I save ( and I save often) I simply use the default save until I am totally done with a project or close to finished and then I save it as a bundle.

    I use MC4 most of the time. It displays a bit different from MC5.

    With a synth, such as TTS or Sound Center, or East West, you essentially have 2 tracks. One where the synth is located (audio) and the other is the midi source code track. That;s the one where you can see the notes. Those two tracks are linked output of the midi track to the input of the audio track. On a side issue.... the synth in the audio track must have a valid patch or sample loaded so it ...the synth can make sounds based on the data being received from the midi source.

    Those 3 things must be working properly..... midi data going the the audio track for the synth, which has a working patch... in order to get sound.

    When you save the project, ALL that data is saved so that when you load the project again, all the connections are there automatically.

    I have noticed a few times in my DAW, that I will have to delete the synth and reload it, but that is not a common occurrence. It should come up running.

    RevP..... did I miss it somewhere or simply forgotten... but what is the SOUNDCARD you are using?   As a new user, it would be very helpful to those trying to help you if you would take a minute, go into your profile, and add the system specs for the computer, and soundcard to your signature so we can look and see at a glance what your hardware and software setup consists of.

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    #15
    Beagle
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/06 10:28:03 (permalink)
    RobertB


    Beagle, I remember when you were a pup here.
    I was still growing into my feet at the same time 



    Yep!  and my first project was "Be Thou My Vision" that I wanted to add bagpipes to and you helped me learn about bagpipes!
     
    revernd - these guys have given you the best advice I could give, so there's no point in me re-stating what they've said.  good luck!


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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Please help a nOOb 2011/06/06 11:14:56 (permalink)
    One step at a time....

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
    Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface


    BMI/NSAI

    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #17
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