Vocals with large dynamic differences

sharpdion23


I have a vocal recorded and the dynamics of the vocal are quickly changing from -20db to 0db. What do you do with this?
I tried v-vocal dynamics section but it takes too long to do every single one.
 
Is there any Compressor settings you use for this kind of problem with boost11 or Sonitus compressor
 
 
 

Are you tired of me yet? 
 
If it's that bad, you may want to do some compression on the way in (external compressor) or record with a good bit of head room then use a dynamics processor.
Best answer is practice  practice  practice!
 
Brian

Are you tired of me yet?   
 
If it's that bad, you may want to do some compression on the way in (external compressor) or record with a good bit of head room then use a dynamics processor.
Best answer is practice  practice  practice!
 
Brian

As long as he's not clipping, processing it with plugins should yield similar results, varying of course on the compressor used in both cases. 

For timing, I'd only use manual edits. Oldschool, but reliable. And very quick when using the keypad nudges. I have modified my low nudge to be pretty small so I can just tap tap tap the vocal cuts in place. 

If you're lining up harmony tracks or doubles, I turn on the mouse aim ('x' key) in order to visually see where the clips are lining up.

Danny Danzi

Stone House Studios

sharpdion23


I have a vocal recorded and the dynamics of the vocal are quickly changing from -20db to 0db. What do you do with this?
I tried v-vocal dynamics section but it takes too long to do every single one.
 
Is there any Compressor settings you use for this kind of problem with boost11 or Sonitus compressor
 
 
 

Are you tired of me yet? 
 
If it's that bad, you may want to do some compression on the way in (external compressor) or record with a good bit of head room then use a dynamics processor.
Best answer is practice  practice  practice!
 
Brian

This is exactly what I do as well, Sharp. I like to record going in at about -6dB and use a compressor while recording so it keeps me close to -6dB. Nothing too extreme here because you don't want to kill your dynamics. I'm sort of using the compressor as a conditioner so to speak, just so it stops me from going all over the place. Also, it is wise to use movement techniques when singing. For example, if you are going to belt something out, you should move away from the mic a bit. For more intimate passages, you move closer in to the mic. For the most part though, when I set up my input signals and my actual placement for where I will stand and sing, I set the levels so that I'm never going over -6dB at my loudest vocal part. The little bit of compression going in using a hardware comp keeps things nice and tight without squashing the heck out of the vocal track. Then you can add more compression to taste using a plugin once you've recorded tha track, and then you should use some automation on the vocal track as well to keep it consistent. The Sonitus compressor or one of the Pro Channel comps should be perfect for this after you've recorded your tracks. Best of luck. :)

For recording is there a compressor plugin instead of using a hardware for recording?

hello sharp, i agree with those who have already suggested retracking the vocal with a bit of compression while also being mindful of mic technique. a 20 db swing is kind of a lot. unless the track in question has some unique, never-to-be-done-again content, just take it as a learning experience and do it again. that's one of the luxuries of unlimited tracks. good luck.

Why not use clip envelopes? Divide the track up and add envelopes to the louder parts. Essentially what your doing is creating another mix in the track. You can easily get similar volumes that way and then compress.

Other than that, if you can re-record it, do that.

I haven't done it yet, but can't you draw envelopes in X1? Drawing dips should make it a lot faster. Again I haven't tried this yet, I just thought it was a feature. I'll check when I get home.

sharpdion23


This is a long long song and so doing envelopes manually takes time

Ahem . . . .  Let us never forget the investment of time!  Only the Beatles can record a hit record in a day!  
 
(Somebody please get my Star Trek China/Nixon joke here!)
 
Brian

+1 to what's said above:

In the future counsel your performers on mic technique. Backing off on louder passages will save you headaches in the future.

You can add a hardware unit to massage the signal on the way to the computer, which will ease your life later  but you need to spend time tweaking it in rehearsals.

And, once it's in, if you haven't clipped it you just compress that sucker! How much obviously will depend on the material. A singer/songwriter with a guitar can get away with a large dynamic range in a performance. A metal song with a thick musical bed? Not so much.

A lot of good advice above. Just to summarize..

- Mic technique is the essential thing. Practice!
- External compressor helps (subtly!). A plugin can not replace the external compressor in preventing clipping, but a "pre-SONAR" compressor that many soundcards offer, does help to get more even dynamics on the track.
- If you try to squash the dynamics with a compressor in one go, the result is most likely not satisfactory
- Spending a day or two just adjusting volume envelopes for a vocal part is not uncommon. If
you have to do it, you do it.
 

Rather than using a single compressor set to a higher compression ratio, try running several compressors in series... set to a lower compression ratio.
This will yield a smoother sounding result.

Using multiple compressors is analogous with painting - you don't just slap one thick coat on and be done with it - you build it up in coats/layers. You'll get a much smoother response this way no matter which compressors you use.

You've got the Sonitus - use it! It's a very good workhorse comp and lends itself well to lots of different applications.

You can record with the compressor in the bin but you won't be recording what the compressor does. The only way you can affect an incoming signal this way is by using hardware BEFORE your AD (Interface/soundcard)

Nobody can tell you what settings to use because each case is totally different from every other case. We don't know how hot your signal levels are and this will dictate where the threshold - the most important parameter - is set.

You need to spend a LOT of time investigating & experimenting with different settings so you get to know what each one does and how they interact with each other.

Sharp,

no plugin will help control the incoming dynamics - any more than doing it post recording.  It seems to me, like others, that reducing the dynamics going in is the best way.  There are several things you need to do.

Work on vocal delivery.  I'm not competent to make suggestion here, esp. if you have ever heard my attempts at singing.
 
A preamp w/ high gain.  This will let you back off the mic, which naturally "compresses" the sound since volume falls off geometrically w/ distance - it is squared.  Compared to most built in interfaces, an external preamp will deliver more pure gain, so you can turn it up and back off the mic.  You need to address room problems before you can take advantage of this, but even in an OK room it can really help the dynamics of a song.  Backing the singer off 6 inches to a foot (or more!) solves all kinds of problems - dynamics, timbre changes with head movements, proximity effects, etc.  The preamp doesn't have to be a hand made tubey $2000 job - there are plenty of mid range preamps that can accomplish this.  Gap pre, Isa One, FMR.  any of these (and some others even cheaper) can deliver more gain w/ less stress than even a good built-in preamp (my TC impact preamps are good, but the ISA One is much better in relative terms).
 
a compressor going into the AD.  Obviously, you can let it do the gain riding.  Just a touch can help and provide the singer confidence to deliver a good performance without worrying about volume.
 
EQ - a low cut on your mic or preamp can get rid of a lot of rumble low end crud that you won't use and don't need (I usually cut vox up to 150+ Hz in the box anyway and cutting out lower stuff provides more headroom).
 
If you can't re-record (and you could always do 2 takes - one close and one far and use the best parts from each w/o spending a cent more), the above suggestions will allow you to work on your chops.  And remember, use your own judgment about these things.  Others can provide techniques, but it is the ones you choose to employ that make you an engineer.
 
@

sharpdion23

Bristol_Jonesey


Using multiple compressors is analogous with painting - you don't just slap one thick coat on and be done with it - you build it up in coats/layers. You'll get a much smoother response this way no matter which compressors you use.

You've got the Sonitus - use it! It's a very good workhorse comp and lends itself well to lots of different applications.

You can record with the compressor in the bin but you won't be recording what the compressor does. The only way you can affect an incoming signal this way is by using hardware BEFORE your AD (Interface/soundcard)

Nobody can tell you what settings to use because each case is totally different from every other case. We don't know how hot your signal levels are and this will dictate where the threshold - the most important parameter - is set.

You need to spend a LOT of time investigating & experimenting with different settings so you get to know what each one does and how they interact with each other.

The only way you can affect an incoming signal this way is by using hardware BEFORE your AD (Interface/soundcard)

 
I don't know if this has been answered, so feel free to point it out, but is there really no compressor plugin that affects my incoming signal other than gain control?

A little bit of thought will tell you the answer (not trying to sound disrespectful) but ANY plugin MUST, by it's very nature, be AFTER your AD & soundcard. It plugs-into Sonar, so by that very definition, if the signal is too hot or too dynamic by the time it reaches your converters - it's too late

Microphone > Pre-amp > Interface > Sonar > Plugins

Compress here             ^^

You need to apply compression BEFORE it his your interface, not after