Audio tracks shifting?

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TheMightyVH
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2011/06/06 15:43:15 (permalink)

Audio tracks shifting?

Hi,
Wondering if someone can help me with a recurring issue I've been having with MC 5.  I've been working with a drummer who records tracks on an electronic kit, and sends me an audio file (mp3).  I import the file in Music Creator, then I record my guitar tracks via a mic'd up amp, through a preamp an into my sound card.  The problem is that my guitar tracks seem to "snap" in about an 1/8 beat behind if that makes sense.  I have to drag the audio to have it line up correctly with the drum track.  Can is possibly be quantizing my guitar tracks incorrectly?  I've experienced the same problem using a line 6 product that connects via USB, so I don't think my sound card is the problem.  I know I'm not playing out of time, specifically because the track stays consistantly out of time throughout.  If I find the exact spot by dragging the audio slightly, the entire recording stays rhythmically correct?  any thoughts?  Thanks!
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    Robomusic
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/06 17:05:22 (permalink)
    It is latency, and is typical. What is causin it is that it has a small time lag between the travel of the audio signal being recorded from the guitar to the amp, to the sound card to the software. You built in card can not compensate, and the line 6 while it most likely can, it needs to be setup using a ASIO driver with a very low buffering setting no more than 256.

    It helps if you use a exterioal interface like the Line 6 with ASIO drivers and monitor the signal at the headphone port on the line 6.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/06 21:10:12 (permalink)
    Yup... sounds like latency from a factory sound card.

    you have found a work around... good for you....shows you're thinking.

    Wanna solve the problem? You'll need to look at buying a nice USB interface.

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    RobertB
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 01:09:03 (permalink)
    TheMightyVH

     I've been working with a drummer who records tracks on an electronic kit, and sends me an audio file (mp3).  I import the file in Music Creator, then I record my guitar tracks via a mic'd up amp, through a preamp an into my sound card.  The problem is that my guitar tracks seem to "snap" in about an 1/8 beat behind if that makes sense. ... the recording stays rhythmically correct?  

    It makes perfect sense, for the reason the guys mentioned.
    If you are using a built-in sound card, the default latency is usually 500ms. This is fine for normal playback of MP3's, CD's etc.
    The problem is when you are trying to sync real-time recording with playback of pre-recorded tracks.
    Here's the deal. When MC sends the sound to your sound card, you hear it 500ms later. This is roughly an 8th note delay.
    You are playing, and recording in time with what you hear, and it is faithfully recorded 1/2 second behind the original note event.
    Depending on how the Line6 was set, you may have heard the same effect, but possibly to a lesser degree.
    If you can keep the latency to 20ms or less, it is virtually imperceptible. It may still need a tiny nudge to be spot on, but not as dramatic as what you are hearing now.
    This is where a good sound card becomes such an important part of the picture.
    If you record with VST effects, such as amp sims, as I do routinely, it becomes imperative, because the delay compounds even further.
    Make sense?
    post edited by RobertB - 2011/06/07 01:11:32

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    Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 07:48:17 (permalink)
    I missed the line 6 USB card in the OP... There is an adjustment in your audio options that allows you to change the latency at will. Some people need to change that number from time to time, depending on the interface and whether they are recording or in playback.

    You can adjust it to the lowest number it will go to..... in latency less is best, and see how it does. With a good card and a fast computer that number can be set as low as it will go and can be left there.  I want to think mine is set to 8 or 10 milliseconds which is very low and impossible to hear.

    Experiment a bit to see if your system can handle the lowest settings when it comes to the latency slider.

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    TheMightyVH
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 10:15:07 (permalink)
    Thanks for all of the responses!  It does make a lot of sense now that you've all clarified.  I searched the forum for similar issues, and suspected latency, but what threw me for a loop was that I experienced the problem with the Line 6 USB device.  I was under the impression that it served as a sound card, and because it seems to be designed for this type of thing, that latency was not the issue.  I think it's time to invest in a good sound card as I prefer the old school sound of a mic'd up tube amp to a simulator (unless it's Axe-FX which I can't justify spending the money on!)  Thanks again, I really appreciate it!
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 10:27:17 (permalink)
    Some USB sound card work fine "right out of the box" and some need to be adjusted. 

    I'm not sure why that is. But I know I've seen a few that need to be adjusted like I mentioned above. The one I have IIRC, had a one time set up. It asked me to choose the latency setting when I installed it, and I chose the lowest setting possible. It worked fine in both record & playback even with big synths.

    With the line6 , you can probably make some adjustments and get it to work reasonably well. Most USB interfaces ( the true interfaces and not just the "cable interfaces" like the UNO) are adjustable and tend to work well.

    Some people can get the cable interfaces to work well also.

    just experiment with the latency settings.

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    RobertB
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 11:43:36 (permalink)
    Which Line6 device do you have?
    I'm not sure about their more basic models, but the UX2 should be capable of 10ms, using its native ASIO drivers.
    The default setting is fairly high, but you can adjust it in the Gearbox panel.

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    Robomusic
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 12:45:35 (permalink)
    The other thing to think about is if you are recording with the line 6 and playing back thru the built in card. This is killer for latency since they are not using either the same clock, or running on the same time factors.

    Make darn sure where you record is where the headphones or speakers are attached.

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    TheMightyVH
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 16:11:38 (permalink)
    RobertB


    Which Line6 device do you have?
    I'm not sure about their more basic models, but the UX2 should be capable of 10ms, using its native ASIO drivers.
    The default setting is fairly high, but you can adjust it in the Gearbox panel.


    It was an original Line 6 POD that I borrowed.  I don't own one currently, but I mentioned it because I used it as a troubleshooting step.  I was thinking of picking up an Alesis IO2 Express as a USB input device.  Anyone ever use one or can recommend an inexpensive alternative?
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    57Gregy
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 20:22:12 (permalink)
    Don't get the Alesis.
    Being a "plug and play" device, it doesn't have ASIO drivers.
    Check out Beagle's web site for audio interface recommendations, but think about what inputs and outputs you need or want, if you need phantom power for your condenser microphones, or a MIDI in/out. XLR jacks, RCA, S/PDIF, etc.
    And remember that MC can only record 2 inputs, so getting an interface with 8 inputs will be pointless unless you foresee yourself upgrading to SONAR or other DAW that can record more than 2 inputs.
    Check out M-Audio, Presonus, Focusrite and the Cakewalk/Roland line of audio interfaces.

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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/07 20:24:21 (permalink)
    ASIO drivers RULE!

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    Beagle
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    Re:Audio tracks shifting? 2011/06/08 11:58:45 (permalink)
    TheMightyVH


    RobertB


    Which Line6 device do you have?
    I'm not sure about their more basic models, but the UX2 should be capable of 10ms, using its native ASIO drivers.
    The default setting is fairly high, but you can adjust it in the Gearbox panel.


    It was an original Line 6 POD that I borrowed.  I don't own one currently, but I mentioned it because I used it as a troubleshooting step.  I was thinking of picking up an Alesis IO2 Express as a USB input device.  Anyone ever use one or can recommend an inexpensive alternative?


    The Alesis I/O2 is "hit and miss" IMO as far as quality drivers go.  there are better devices available, IMO.  check my website for recommendations.

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