The Maillard Reaction
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Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
[actual question]
Is faster worth it if you like to watch director cut social drama documentaries?
Or is it just for action movies?
[/actual question]
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bapu
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 15:51:27
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What's a good love story if not in the highest refresh rate possible?
Just another silly love song.
And, what's wrong with that?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 15:53:22
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Jonbouy
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 15:53:33
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60hz is enough to look at naked lady stills. Why would I need anything faster? They persist better than CRT's anyway.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/06/08 15:54:47
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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dlogan
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 16:19:43
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I have a 60hz refresh rate on mine. From what I've heard, that is fine unless you're doing hi-def games, etc. 120 probably makes it more "future proof" though.
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bapu
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 16:23:05
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dlogan
I have a 60hz refresh rate on mine. From what I've heard, that is fine unless you're doing hi-def games, etc. 120 probably makes it more "future proof" though.
And 20 to 40% better no doubt.
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SCorey
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 18:02:15
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Like audio specs, taken on its own it's not a very useful spec. And most new TVs are of sufficient quality to at least be "not crap". That's good enough for me when it comes to TVs. I suspect that you might have different opinions on what "not crap" is.
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bapu
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 18:08:43
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SCorey
I suspect that you might have different opinions on what "not crap" is.
Yes No Maybe Mike McCue will have to get back to you on that.
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ohgrant
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 18:31:51
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I think only if you're looking to set up 3D. From my understanding, LCD's refresh rate @60 hz doesn't give the flickering a CRT did because only the pixels that change are refreshed. But for 3D to work properly you need 120hz for the shutter technology to work because that is 60hz for left 60hz for right. Anything lower and the shuttering effect is so slow it gives you a headache in a short time. I really can't think of any other advantage to higher refresh rates on LCD's.
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Jonbouy
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 18:32:25
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When it comes to crap TV the refresh rate is rarely the thing that concerns me.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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bapu
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 18:34:15
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ohgrant
Anything lower and the shuttering effect is so slow it gives you a headache in a short time.
Similar to an acoustic jam session with Bapu?
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bapu
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 18:36:08
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Jonbouy
crap TV
Redundant?
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ohgrant
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 18:56:17
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bapu
ohgrant
Anything lower and the shuttering effect is so slow it gives you a headache in a short time.
Similar to an acoustic jam session with Bapu?
No that was surprisingly painless 
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bapu
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 18:57:18
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ohgrant
bapu
ohgrant
Anything lower and the shuttering effect is so slow it gives you a headache in a short time.
Similar to an acoustic jam session with Bapu?
No that was surprisingly painless
Must've been my stunt double then.
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ohgrant
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 19:05:07
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Hmm..possibly, he didn't come with an alembic or a Spacey special, he showed no interest in my bass and went right for the cheap $89.00 Sam Goody acoustic and got all Spanish on me so it must have been an imposter. Oh dear! that means there's more than one out there 
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digi2ns
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 19:44:06
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My 40" LED is 1080p @120 and my 50 Plasma is 720p @ 60. I really cant tell any difference in pixellation regardless of the amount of action on the screen. The 40" LED @ 1080 however has a much better picture on HD.
MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
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digi2ns
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 19:52:35
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I have the 40 connected to HD Receiver for Comcast, Sonar DAW (for Dual monitors), Internet computer for Youtube, SoundCloud, Facebook, etc... and DVD Player all on HDMIs. Make sure whatever ya go with has enuff inputs depending on how your going to use it.
MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
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Bub 
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 21:19:13
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I have a 52" LCD that has 120Hz refresh rate. I see motion blur when watching satellite and some over the air signals but never on DVD/Blu Ray's or HD games on my PS3. I'm not sure if there's a corralation between size and refresh rate though. In other words, I don't know if a smaller screen would display no blur at 120Hz refresh or not?
I don't think you can get a 60Hz TV anymore? 240 is already on the market and 120 will be phased out one day I would assume. The reviews I've read say there is no real world difference between 240 and 120 though. It's more marketing hype than anything else.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 21:29:07
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Mike I am a tennis fan and the tennis has been gettin faster and faster! It helps in that capacity!
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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craigb
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 21:50:00
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A refresh rate on an LED LCD TV? Um, ok... I may be wrong, but refresh rates are only necessary for CRT TV's. LCD's are designed to stay on until told to turn off. Since the gun on a CRT starts at the top left and works its way down the TV screen exciting the phosphor coating on the back of the glass, it needs to keep doing it over and over because the phosphor only stays lit for a fraction of a second. Those CRT's that are called "interlaced" (e.g., when you see a resolution like "480i") only light every other line so the gun hits lines 1, 3, 5, etc. on the first pass then 2, 4, 6, etc. on the second pass. Even though only half the screen is lit at any time, our eyes see the whole picture due to persistance of vision. If you have a resolution like "480p" then that means it's "progressive" and can handle doing every line on every pass (i.e., line 1 then line 2 then line 3, etc.). This makes the picure look more detailed.
Not requiring a refresh rate is why you don't need a screensaver for an LCD monitor, why your eyes don't get as tired while looking at one and why you can't see a flicker if you stare at an LCD monitor while chewing gum! (Try it with a CRT and you will see what I mean.)
BTW - An "LED" LCD monitor simply indicates that it's using a certain type of back lighting. There are a few, but LED's are better than the cheapest approach (which involves sending light in from the edges or something like that). They're not nearly the most expensive approach either, but definitely the type of LCD I'd be looking for.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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drewfx1
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 22:22:01
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craigb
A refresh rate on an LED LCD TV? Um, ok... I may be wrong, but refresh rates are only necessary for CRT TV's. LCD's are designed to stay on until told to turn off. Since the gun on a CRT starts at the top left and works its way down the TV screen exciting the phosphor coating on the back of the glass, it needs to keep doing it over and over because the phosphor only stays lit for a fraction of a second. Those CRT's that are called "interlaced" (e.g., when you see a resolution like "480i") only light every other line so the gun hits lines 1, 3, 5, etc. on the first pass then 2, 4, 6, etc. on the second pass. Even though only half the screen is lit at any time, our eyes see the whole picture due to persistance of vision. If you have a resolution like "480p" then that means it's "progressive" and can handle doing every line on every pass (i.e., line 1 then line 2 then line 3, etc.). This makes the picure look more detailed.
Not requiring a refresh rate is why you don't need a screensaver for an LCD monitor, why your eyes don't get as tired while looking at one and why you can't see a flicker if you stare at an LCD monitor while chewing gum! (Try it with a CRT and you will see what I mean.)
BTW - An "LED" LCD monitor simply indicates that it's using a certain type of back lighting. There are a few, but LED's are better than the cheapest approach (which involves sending light in from the edges or something like that). They're not nearly the most expensive approach either, but definitely the type of LCD I'd be looking for.
You are wrong to the extent that it's not just a matter of the pixel staying lit vs. needing to be refreshed, as on a CRT - the LCD needs to be able to turn on or off very quickly when the picture changes rapidly, and that's the advantage of a faster refresh rate. One of the traditional problems with LCD's compared to other television technologies is LCD's turn on and fade out relatively slowly - to the extent that early LCD display technology was unusable for video, but massive improvements have been made over the years. I would imagine a hockey fan would want the faster refresh rate. I'm not sure how much it matters with most other content, but I haven't done side by side comparisons. I bought my newest TV a while back when "LED TV's" (i.e "LCD TV's with LED backlighting") were first appearing, and at that time the versions of "LED TV's" that weren't super expensive were lit only around the edges and thus had inferior pictures compared to "conventional LCD" TV's. Not sure if that has changed over the last year or two. I would also say that a much darker than usual room, with soft lighting to the sides of a properly adjusted TV, will improve picture quality much more than most of the technical stuff will.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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craigb
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/08 22:44:00
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That makes sense. I didn't have my usual amount of time to verify facts like I usually do (hence the "I may be wrong" disclaimer) but I figured, hey, if it's good enough for politicians and salesmen, why waste the time?
Now that I think about it, the new monitors I've been looking at are all LED LCD's with 2ms to 7ms refresh times. I was just confusing those with 60hz to 120hz refreshes for a CRT.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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spacey
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Re:Whatta you all think about refresh rate on LED LCD TVs
2011/06/09 09:01:43
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Mike check this. After watching 3d on the Alienware 17" I've been looking at Sony. I sure have enjoyed what I've seen of 3D. They got it going on big time. The Bravia was my choice in the store while viewing side by side. I have a 46 and 55 HD and no complaints. (other than no 3d) Somewhere on the site it has a great comparison showing the refresh rate difference. Example in the movie on link page. Currently I'm on hold because of the lack of 3D and waiting to see more of the "no glasses needed" models.
post edited by spacey - 2011/06/09 09:04:12
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