Settting/.Adjusting Midi Track Tempos

...Hi,wonder if anyone can help with what seems a ridiculously simple srt but for some reason, the solution escapes our best efforts (3hrs) of trying to find out how to do..here it is

We're recording on x1 essential and we want to edit the drum tempo to tighten it up to a live audio track.....only thing is...when we change the tempo using th freehand tools which is easy enough....low and behold it changes not just the 'trak' tempo but the tempo' setting for the entitre set of midi files inthe project !

So the $64million Q is "How do you change the tempo setting for (on) individual midi tracks in the project? Thanks in advance for your help. Frazzel

Hi Kelsoz, appreciate the prompt reply...tied alll that stuff an its useless....we need to have control over individual track tempo settings because when you we do live gigs an record them we then over dub sum keyboard parts that I do live listening to the track that way we keep the great live feel...the only thin is when we want to add a drum track we need to alter the preset tempo as it will never by in time........but like I say....if we alter the tempo when in the drum track.....there' no way to isolate the tempo change......!!!!  and these fit to !!! areabout as much use as a chcoclate teapot :  ( there must be a way to isolate the tempo by track I would have thought ?

....Hi K...yep, you got it.....alter it throughout......a musician/band thats any kop will always want to do this as its soooooooooo important to keep the live feel and as you will prob know ......you make the odd gaff playing live  so you always wanna do overdubs....but play them live an in time...Adding drum patterns sexy's the whole piece up................... but you absolutely need the freedom of having different tempos on the midi trax or its US....

All sorts of music have numbers where the musicians are playing at different tempo's depending on what type of rhythms are being laying down....one tempo is just plain daft .....lets hope as you say that the wise men of the village can come up with a work around that does not involve using these naff ......" just add water"  quantizers  !!!! they kill any live feeling

If your initial "live" recording is done using audio only then the answer is to use "fit improv" to match the midi tempo to what you have played.

If your "live" recording includes midi parts, then it is imperative that you set the tempo, and any tempo changes, before recording and then play to a click track.  This is standard practise and is the only way I know that would allow you to drop in midi patterns after the fact and have them play in time.

The reson is perfectly simple,  and obvious.  An audio file is a continuous stream of data that plays back at the same speed regardless of midi tempo.  Midi data is a series of instructions that include a time stamp telling them when to execute. The time is calculated from the project tempo, therefor the tempo must be set correctly BEFORE you hit record.

there must be a way to isolate the tempo by track I would have thought ?

kelsoz


I believe the only tempo in Sonar is the project tempo, with which which you have fiddled.  The midi data in the track, note-on and note-off times are slave to that.  And that's that.

You can go to Process/Length and change (scale) the start times and durations of all selected notes (and audio too).  That may be worth a look.  Also look at Process/Fit Improvisation.

This is the right answer (except for the Fit Improvisation suggestion which will also alter whole project tempos).



An easier alternative to calculating what the length factor needs to be to get to the right tempo is to set the tempo of the clip to be imported before you bring it into the project by opening it in a separate project, and changing the tempo to match the target project. Or turning it into a Groove Clip so it adopts the tempo of the target project automatically. when it's brought in.

This assumes that the clip was already synced to the timeline at some fixed tempo before you changed it or groove clip it. If not, you'd have to use Set Measure/Beat At Now to establish that correct original tempo.

I don't even want to get started thinking about the kinds of issues we might see on the forum if SONAR allowed per-track tempos. 

..Thanks for this...but not wanting to pour water on your enthusiasm....Fit to Imp is naff...it simply does not have the capability to pick up rights beats and the tempo map it creates is crap..it's all over the place with the resultant effect that it is all over the shop...the 'only' way to sync in library drums accurately is with the freehand tool...which is a great tool...but like i said...it affects the 'entire' Tempo' dead easy fix....individual tempos for tracks......how difficult can it be ? appreciate your suggestions, frazzel

..not sure why your scared of multi track tempo...if your a musician...and by that I mean you can count out time signatures and know the difference between allegro an presto and can tap it out.........depending on what instrument your playing (recording) and the style that the instrument is being played in...in some cases you can be playing Presto (faster than Allegro) on one instrument and 'Allegro' in an other......to get the right sound.......having only one Tempo is Clockwork Useless Music.....multi tempos solves this and gives you more options for a 'real' feel. appreciate your comments.

ok,  you said that all your live recording is audio with no midi.

The first step before you dub ANY midi is to create a tempo map to match your recording.  You can use 'fit to improv' or my preffered method is to manually set key points with 'set measure at now' (or whatever it's called).

Recording ANY midi with ANY software relies on the tempo being correct before recording starts as it references bars:beats:ticks     Once you have a tempo map created that matches your recording (check this by enabling the playback metronome) you can go ahead and add in any number of midi parts or drop in midi loops or audio loops and they WILL fit.

As for per track tempo,  what you're saying is you want the ability for each and every instrument to play out of time....   Well most bands spend years practising so that everyone plays IN time...  I don't get what you want here.

I honestly think the OP means that having the one tempo map means we only have the ability to play in 1 strict tempo from start to finish.

A map is just that - a map - it will and can offer different tempi at different parts of the song.

Slowing down slightly during verses, speeding up a little for a chorus, introducing Rallentando, Accelerando passages are part and parcel of nearly every DAW I'm familiar with.

But different tempi for different TRACKS? Who the hell does that? What does the drummer follow? Who follows him?

Don't confuse this with polyrhythmic passages where cross-rhythms are played against each other to produce some wonderful sounding beats.

From Wiki:
Frank Zappa, especially towards the end of his career, experimented with complex polyrhythms, such as 11:17, and even nested polyrhythms [esp Keep It Geasey]

I think the last three posts are all on the right track. Just wanted to add that I take exception to the opening of post #10, "thanks for this but it simply does not work". To solve the specific problem described, it most certainly does work... if you know what you're doing.