What's up with Native Instruments?

I've used Kontakt for years and never once crashed either version 2 or 3. I recently took advantage of the half-price sale and upgraded to K4, and after only 2 days with it I've managed to crash it (and SONAR) a dozen times. I can crash it consistently in standalone mode merely by trying to play one of the bundled libraries (Wurly Speaker). (How'd that get past QA and the beta testers? Untested post-release tweaks?)

So I go to the NI forums and read the last dozen pages in the Kontakt subforum and what do I find? Months-old unresolved crashes (in Logic, Reaper and Cubase, both Mac and PC) and users having to roll back to previous revs to keep working. And not many comments from NI staff, who really ought to be in there for damage control if nothing else.

This product is over a year old. I'd expect it to be pretty stable by now at version 4.2.3. To be this flaky at this stage suggests some systemic problems at NI. Anybody else wondering what's up with them?

I know at least a couple forum regulars here are beta testers for NI, and a couple others develop libraries for Kontakt. I'd love to hear their insights.

I've never been impressed with NI's customer relations. NI forum posters are always in "Torch and Pitchfork" mode whenever I go there to research a problem. One glaring example: Kore 2 owners who bought Komplete 7 right after it was released remember the fiasco of trying to get it to work with Kore 2, even though it was advertised as being 100% compatible. I'm not surprised that they decided to drop Kore 2 altogether.

bit - what kind of crash?  shuts down?  error message?  reboots the machine?

I had crashes when using Kontakt 4.1 on winxp with X1, but when I updated to 4.2.2 I had no more crashes.  these crashes did not occur even with 4.1 on S8.5, tho.

I've had no stability problems at all, tho, since moving to win7x64 with Kontakt 4.2.3

bitflipper


I know at least a couple forum regulars here are beta testers for NI, and a couple others develop libraries for Kontakt. I'd love to hear their insights.

you  won't if they have signed an NDA (and no I don't test for them.. but it feels like it the amount of stuff I reported to em)

just submit them the crash logs etc. 

for me , NI is changing as a company.. and I feel sadly not for the better.

Thanks, Reece.

...when I`ve been in the Kontakt window and trying out sounds.

Most of my crashes have also occurred while auditioning numerous library sounds, because I've only had K4 a short while and have been exploring the library. Makes me wonder if the problem may stem from memory not being freed when an instrument is unloaded.

yep.  crashorama.  it didn't crash until I tried to press a key on the keyboard of the kontakt GUI - it loaded fine. but as soon as I pressed a button.  bam!

I was running the 32bit version of sonar in win7x64 as my first test.  I didn't even try the winxp since it crashes here.

...I am running the versions from the DVD... I have not updated them.

Yes, it appears that subsequent fixes have introduced new bugs. It sounds like 4.1 was the most stable version, but because I purchased recently I do not have that rev available as an option. I could uninstall and reinstall from the disks, thus backrevving to 4.0, but I'd have to read all the interim change logs first to find out what bugs I'd be adding back in. Too much trouble. I'll just be patient and wait for 4.4.

crashorama

Thanks for testing and confirming that, Beagle.

Though dramatic, this kind of obvious bug actually doesn't bother me too much because being easily reproducible it should also be easily fixed. I'll be surprised if isn't fixed in the next library update.


I don't depend on Kontakt for anything critical, and have no problem waiting for the next fix release. It's just that I am dismayed that a product would be having such problems a year and a half after its introduction. I'm thinking NI may have lost some key people or something.

Of course, my understanding attitude could change very abruptly if one of these Kontakt crashes were to result in lost work or -knock on wood- a corrupt project.

Johannes H

I have W7 64bit and my Kontakt 4.2.3 had a crash in standalone mode when I loaded up Wurly Speaker.

I have also had a couple of crashes in Sonar, but only when I`ve been in the Kontakt window and trying out sounds.

Same here. W7 x64, Kontakt 4.2.3, Sonar X1. I either get no sound or Sonar locks up completely. Right now it's just happening with Wurly Speaker, though I haven't auditioned every single sound yet.

bitflipper

...I am running the versions from the DVD... I have not updated them.

Yes, it appears that subsequent fixes have introduced new bugs. It sounds like 4.1 was the most stable version, but because I purchased recently I do not have that rev available as an option. I could uninstall and reinstall from the disks, thus backrevving to 4.0, but I'd have to read all the interim change logs first to find out what bugs I'd be adding back in. Too much trouble. I'll just be patient and wait for 4.4.

crashorama

Thanks for testing and confirming that, Beagle.

Though dramatic, this kind of obvious bug actually doesn't bother me too much because being easily reproducible it should also be easily fixed. I'll be surprised if isn't fixed in the next library update.


I don't depend on Kontakt for anything critical, and have no problem waiting for the next fix release. It's just that I am dismayed that a product would be having such problems a year and a half after its introduction. I'm thinking NI may have lost some key people or something.

Of course, my understanding attitude could change very abruptly if one of these Kontakt crashes were to result in lost work or -knock on wood- a corrupt project.

Dave - have you submitted a bug report to NI?  this is a pretty repeatable bug, so I would have thought by 4.2.3 we'd already have seen a fix for this.  I don't know how to submit bug reports to NI, but I'd like for several of us to do so - so that NI might notice it.

Update: one of the users who reported the bug just now posted the reply he got back from NI. They said the issue is with the convolution reverb when used as an insert effect with anything other than 0ms delay compensation.

I have verified their workaround works. Select the convolution reverb, click on Edit, click on Latency and select 0ms.

Score one point for NI Support for providing a workaround.

Hi Bit,
 
FWIW, There have been some significant changes with the last few Kontakt updates (4.2x - background sample loading, zero latency convolution, etc).
I've crashed Kontakt 4.23 several times... when auditioning/tweaking different drum sample libraries.
I don't think either library was using convolution.
 
I've also had a ProTools 9 client who's experienced flakey behavior with Kontakt v4.23
 
I'm sure NI will pull it together...
Prior to these recent changes, Kontakt 4 was running pretty stable.
I've played many gigs using K4 for horns, electric piano, etc...
 

The fix worked here as well--Windows 7 64.

Is every major software vendor blithely marching up JackAss Hill??  It seems so.