Strange behaviour encountered during last night's session

OK so i thought I'd recount some of X1's strange behaviour I encountered during last night's session.
Perhaps some of you might be able to explain what was happening or some of you might have seen these behaviours before.
i just want to know that it's not my system necessarily.

My system specs are in my sig.
I always run ASIO drivers RME3.094 IIRC

Ok so the following odd things happened:

1     Longest to fix was that when MIDI played to an external synth which input audio to an audio track, it would be in sync with the other tracks during playback but the audio was sounding early during recording! After nudging audio around I established it was approximately 44 ticks early. - This was fixed by bypassing an instance of Perfect Space that was sat on a buss that was not in the signal chain!  I'd love to understand how this one works!

2     After a while, if I selected a Clip (either MIDI or Audio) in the TV with Clip enabled in the Edit filter, placed the Now time and attempted to Split the clip, no dialog box would appear so I was unable to determine the split point and moreover no Split was actioned! - This was solved after restarting X1.

3     After a while, in either the TV or the PRV, If I wanted to select a clip and Copy/Paste it to another point in the timeline it would always paste the copied clip to a new track at time 37.01.000 irrespective of which target track was selected or where the Now time was! It would not give me the Copy Events In Tracks dialog when I selected data to copy either! - This was solved by restarting X1.


It is infuriating trying to work with this quirky behaviour, particularly when you are being watched by someone who you'd like to think believes that you know what you are doing....it's so difficult to maintain such a reputation when you keep looking at your project, scratching your head and uttering expletives at the screen........


Has anyone else encountered these behaviours?

What causes them?

Oh dear...perhaps it is my system :(

What makes you say that?


Regarding the PDC issue with the external hardware synth, are you input monitoring its audio through SONAR? If not, SONAR can't apply PDC to that live audio, and it will not be delayed as need to maintain sync with all the tracks that are being compensated. Once you record it. SONAR can compensate the recorded audio.

Input Echo button - looks like ))) - on the audio track receiving the synth's input is lit, and you don't hear live output from the synth when it's not.

Is there a good descripton of input echo somewhere? never bothered understanding its meaning.

It's been my experience with X1 that just about anything weird can happen at almost anytime.  I haven't had the copy/paste to a certain time problem you have but I randomly get a new extra track after copying and pasting a clip somwhere else in the project.  I also get no notes whatsoever showing up in the PRV when I enter it (no matter what method I use to open the PRV) about one out of every three times.  If I get out of the PRV and re-enter it (again using any method) the notes are back.  I get occasionall motorboating or sometimes just silence when playing back.  Midi tracks will refuse to play or trigger their respective VST.  Then they'll just start playing again.  And many other nutty anomalies I do not have with 8.5 (I use it at my commercial facility).  But, with all that said, there's still a lot to like about ol X1.  I'm givin it my derndest to whup it into submission.  I tried Kibble treats but that didn't get me nowhere:-)


PS:  And yes, for all you indefatigable souls who have no problems at all, I'm sure that at least half of my troubles are due to my own dumbulb ways.

yorolpal


It's been my experience with X1 that just about anything weird can happen at almost anytime.  I haven't had the copy/paste to a certain time problem you have but I randomly get a new extra track after copying and pasting a clip somwhere else in the project.  I also get no notes whatsoever showing up in the PRV when I enter it (no matter what method I use to open the PRV) about one out of every three times.  If I get out of the PRV and re-enter it (again using any method) the notes are back.  I get occasionall motorboating or sometimes just silence when playing back.  Midi tracks will refuse to play or trigger their respective VST.  Then they'll just start playing again.  And many other nutty anomalies I do not have with 8.5 (I use it at my commercial facility).  But, with all that said, there's still a lot to like about ol X1.  I'm givin it my derndest to whup it into submission.  I tried Kibble treats but that didn't get me nowhere:-)


PS:  And yes, for all you indefatigable souls who have no problems at all, I'm sure that at least half of my troubles are due to my own dumbulb ways.

    The track/clip/notes not copying properly and creating random tracks etc. is likely due to NOT  doing one of 2 things:
    1. selecting the destination track(the track number has to be lit(black) for it to copy to that track using the standard copy(Ctrl -C) (just clicking in the track header does not select the track)
    2. Having turned off the "Ask every time" box in preferences under Customization - Editing.
The other way to make sure your are sending it to the correct destination track is to use Paste Special(or Ctrl - Alt -V)

    For the notes not getting entered in PRV I assume you are using the floating PRV in which case it may not have focus.  Have you tried using it in the Multidock?  Also, are you using the WizMouse utility which puts the focus on where ever the mouse is pointing?

I have found that some VSTs will not play on first try,stopping and hitting play again usually solves the problem.  (This also occurred with all previous versions as well with the same VSTs)


P.S. Sorry Twigman for hijacking your thread.  I don't have any other suggestions for you other some that have already been mentioned.

I have to say that I've put some heavy hours in on X1 on some heavy projects and I'm really starting to like X1.

Having said that, I totally get where people like Yorolpal are coming from. X1 will pull off some nutty things now and then.

I generally do not have the time or the ability to figure out when something wierd happens, I just keep plugin away until what I need happens and tend to forget how i got there.  The good thing about Sonar ...there are multiple ways to skin a cat.

I'm hanging in 'cause I m thinking even better stuff is on the horizon.

Hey Twigman, i have a similar (if not exactly the same) experience with Perfect Space and PDC.  But I have noticed that it is a bit different between ASIO and WDM, although not usable in either.  I typically use WDM, because my MOTU 2408 does not have a friendly ASIO panel for adjusting latency if things get a bit tight performance wise.

I record a ton of guitar parts.  I use my signal from the either the amps fx loop or from a preamps output, which in turn runs through a cab impulse VST in Sonar.  In order to live monitor it, I route that track's ouputs stright to the soundcard (avoiding any mix busses while tracking), flip on input echo/monitoring and PDC for that track.  This is in WDM mode.  It works fantasatically; there is virtually no latency, even if I stack on chorus and delay plugs, etc....  However, any instances of Perfect Space make the whole thing go bonkers.  The timing of all the tracks drift horribly out of sync with each other.  remove the perfect space and Voila! all is well again.  Now if I recall, what happened when I went to ASIO mode as a test, PDC and input monitoring seemed to be enabled by default, and again, any instances of PS would make it go wonky.  So now I just avoid PS and stay happy...

flip on input echo/monitoring and PDC for that track.

This might be your problem. You don't enable PDC; it's active by default. The "PDC" button in the Control Bar is for Overriding (i.e. bypassing) PDC on input monitored tracks, so you don't have latency playing/singing live with input monitoring.


That's fine for the track you're rehearsing/recording on, but if you have input monitoring enabled on any tracks other than those that are receiving input from a live human who is playing according to what he/she hears, rather than where the Now time is, those tracks will playback out of sync (early) with the rest of the project.

yorolpal

I get occasionall motorboating or sometimes just silence when playing back.  Midi tracks will refuse to play or trigger their respective VST.  Then they'll just start playing again. 
 
I Just stumbled across a tech note related to the problem stated above and plugins w/ 'high' DPC: See it here This could explain why no midi playback.
 
I hope it's not bad form to add a question of my own this far down in a thread. At the time i first scanned my VST plugins, I manually chose whether to leave PDC active or whether to untick it.
 
I've read something recently which leads me to believe that i should have allowed Sonar to make make these selections...is there any way to go back and allow Sonar to make the selections?
 
For example, in Cubase, you can reset Delay Compensation settings by rescanning VST folders...does Sonar have a feature like this?
 
Regards
Glenn