labelling CDs & DVD's with paper labels

I'm curious. I'm curious how many of you might be experiencing the same thing as I am. For years, starting as far back as say... 1999, I had been labeling CD-Rs (and later on, DVD-R's) with paper labeling products (generally, Neato brand materials). Before I go any further, let me just state that I stopped doing this some years ago because of various problems with labeled discs not functioning in certain players. But prior to that, I had labeled a fair number of discs including some short run duplicates I made for clients (and myself), home movies, data backups, etc. The discs all worked fine in the beginning.

What I have found - at this point in time - is that none of the discs that I had labeled now function. None. Some of these discs haven't been taken out of the jewel cases since day one. None of them have left my house. They were stored as well as could be stored. No ruff stuff.

I can understand why some might work or not work in certain situations but this is now a 100% problem. I can't tell why this is happening. I see no way that the disc could be rendered unplayable or unusable. My guess/theory is A) the adhesive is degrading the plastic or B) the paper labels are shrinking over time and causing the disc to warp ever so slightly - enough to render the disc unusable. I see nothing to the naked eye. These are just guesses.

I am wondering if anyone else is seeing anything similar. Neato is still in business and I assume other companies are making similar products. If this is a common problem, we need to get the word out so that people stop using these paper labeling products. I'll survive but the home movies make me weep. I spent a lot of time dubbing VHS tapes to DVD.

What say you?

Hi Larry,

This is definitely a strange problem, but fortunately for me, not one that I have personally experienced. I have Neato labels as well as Stomper CD labels dating back to the first CD burner I ever owned running Windows 98 SE. All of those discs still work to this day without a problem in my CD players here. As a matter of fact, I had a pretty serious pc crash where I had to get another one a little while back. I had to reach for a few of those discs for little things I still use...some photo's, documents and actually a few Dx plugs that still work believe it or not. I'm not sure what the problem could be other than maybe the media you used? I've always used Maxell and Memorex discs and have never had a problem. Even my old Kodak CDRW work perfectly and I've been told data saved on those can become corrupt over time. I wish I had some answers for you, but being quite a sentimental guy myself (and quite a pack rat with old CDR's etc) I have every data disc and DVD that I have ever burned. Now I did have a few problems when a drive was going bad on me to where I thought it was the disc, but a new drive always fixed the problem for me. Sorry you're having issues man...maybe someone else will chime in here that knows more about it.

yes the discs were tested on different drives and failed all of them. it's possible the blame is focused on the wrong thing. Perhaps the discs themselves are to blame as suggested. but why do they go bad over time? I've used a lot of different brands of discs ranging from the cheapest I could find to the best I could find. they all worked fine originally. this problem seemed to get worse over time. Some of the discs started going bad gradually, like they would play but eventually start to skip and/or jump or just stop cold in the drive. I had some home movies that were like that.

I wrongly assumed CD-R/DVD-R technology was robust enough that these things would last a lifetime (or more) if cared for properly. I'm still suspicious of the paper labels but if what you're saying is true, then perhaps it's a combination of both. That's equally disturbing. I mean, if it's happening to me, it must be happening to other people too. Imagine all the data backups and whatever else in the world.

I should mention something: I have years of audio data backups for my studio on CD-R and DVD-R discs dating back to 2004. So far they all seem fine. None of them have paper labels. I have been able to retrieve data from them without issue. In my universe, it's the labeled discs that are giving me problems. Anyway, I was just curious. Like I said, I'm not necessarily losing any sleep over this but it's worrisome and I think worth discussing for no other reason to shed some light on a definite problem.

PS - thanks fireberd - i'll do a search and see what i find on the subject. generally speaking, i've been using taiyo yudens for years. i tend to buy the white unbranded types so i can easily scribble on them with a sharpie or whatever. i've never had an issue with them and clients seem to like them too. haven't heard of any "car" problems in years even burned at high speed. I haven't used paper labels in a long time.

The cheaper brands of CDs can deteriorate after a few years. I imagine that is the problem, not the paper.

What a video guy told me that paper on a DVD is a no no since they spin at higher rates.  The easiest solution is an ink jet printer and spend a few extra bucks on writeable CDs - they are more expensive anyway.

My only problem is my kids stealing them for their stolen music - I guess I need to get some cheap ones and leave them on top.  cost me less and they lose their ill-gotten goods to boot.

@

At a songwriters convention in LA, one of the speakers addressed this topic.

Don't use the stick on labels,  was the advice he gave.

1. They do not look professional.
2. Depending on the label's paper, they can flake and cause dust inside the CD drive... not good.
3. The labels (some kinds with metallic backing) can affect the reflective nature of the disk.
4. The label glue can give out allowing the label to come off.
5. The label can wrinkle up due to moisture/heat and that makes the disk unplayable.
6. The label, if not installed properly and perfectly, can cause the disk to be out of balance.

The other advice was to use the printable CD's, making sure they are AUDIO and not data disks. Data disks will play on some CD players (usually computer based) but may fail to play on the commercial players in many stereo systems.

I never experienced such a strange thing with Paper Labels on CD. Hopefully my Paper Labels might be of good quality or the player. Anyways even I'll try with other options and get back to you with good ideas. Thanks for sharing. For Paper labels http://www.gotoforms.com/

Music CD-R's are no different than "Data" CD-R's except the Music CD-R has a special track written on the disc to identify it as a Music CD-R.  The person that suggested only using Music CD-R's was wrong.  Music CD-R blanks are required in many standalone "music" CD burners.  The Music CD-R's were developed as a concession to the music industry and the extra cost per disc for Music CD-R's goes back to the music industry.  If you are burning audio CD's (and you must use CD-R's, not CD-RW's) on a PC you only need the "data" CD-R blanks.

We have seen paper labels flake and come off in computer "tray" type CD/DVD drives on the Dell forum.  Usually when this happens the drive is toast and must be replaced.  Considering you can buy a computer CD/DVD burner for $20 from www.newegg.com if one has problems because of paper label flaking off, that is the easy way out for a computer disc drive.

Most of the burned Audio CD's that I've seen that won't play or skip in an audio CD player is because it was burned at a high speed.  The newer audio CD players that are also MP3 compatible do not have the burn speed problem, but most older CD players (and older car in-dash players) will balk at higher burned speeds.  My audio CD burn speed "standard" is 8X. The 8X speed is available on most PATA (IDE) interface type burners but unfortunately the newer SATA interface types will only go down to 16X and that can be a problem with some old audio CD players.  I have a 10 year old JVC 5 disc CD player in my home stereo rack and it doesn't like CD's burned over 12X. 

I've never had a problem with paper labels. Still use them (unless I take a sharpie to one as a quickie labeling job). Even if they peel off, they still play. It's definitely the quality of the disc. I once bought a 50-pack of cheap GQ "Great Quality" brand CD-Rs. Ironically, they go "scratchy" (in terms of playability, not necessarily physical scratches on the disc) and eventually go unplayable -- in a matter of *WEEKS*.

Simon?