LOOPMASTERS...oh dear...

hi folks.
I'm a recent convert to sonar X1, and i like it a lot! not happy with the bundled loops though....i've been recording/editing/mixing live instruments for some years now as well as playing instruments professionally, so i was very excited to 'get my teeth' into the bundled groove clips to help speed up my music production process and enlarge my pallette. well, i've been trying to use the loopmaster jazz and world clips lately and i've given up....they all sound dreadful! poor recordings, over processing, inappropriate processing and just basic processing errors make most of these groove clips totally unusable to me even though the musicians on the sessions sound like they did a great job...i mean why do groove clips need all this processing anyway...isn't that what sonar is for???

blimey i hope there are sample CDs out there better than this. i've never used them though, can anyone recommend a good'n?
as i mentioned in the post i'm not critising the players just the producers...VC would be great to have as well though!
i get much better results myself in my project studio and i'm not a trained sound man but i do play professionally so i know when a musicians cutting it and when a sound man knows his/her stuff...I'm surprised cakewalk would want to associate themselves with this lame package...and if this is typical of what's available, well, that's depressing!
still doesn't answer my final point though...unprocessed loops would be much more useful and flexible to work with...

thanks groovey1. i'll check that out. yes, i think having the ability to sample things first is probably the way to go for me.

You could always use MIDI loops and put in your own drum samples and season to taste...

why  would anyone want to use  the bundled loops is beyond me...

if your attitude to loops is like that, then I seriously doubt ANY loop company will match your expectations.. I've use loopmasters along with other companies for years.

of course loops are processed, it's supposed to actually aid you / speed up the process..

dunno the exact loops.. if you give examples of the filenames?

remember you still need to do things like side chaining on the kick drum to improve separation and if your not doing things like that.. then don't expect it to sound so great.

the reason why loops have splicing.. e.g. with rx2's is because you can generate FAR more variants with it.. that same 6 seconds will sound very boring if it doesn't change every few bars..

I don't mind giving pointers, but I'm not here to read the manual for others..

there are LOADS of way of doing the same thing.. via audio / midi..

you just use the loop in RXP (DP does it also IRC).. drag the midi... use the kick note copied to another track (to mark the position of where the kick comes in ) and use a far deeper Hz kick etc to do ducking/gating on the sub bass on another track.

otherwise.. the loop sounds like a flat static layer.. does not effect any sub bass under the kick.. with side chaining you make it sound dynamic.

as with separate hits , drums separation is good for EQ'ing.

you could even do it the other way, I forget the name.. it's the opposite of ducking.. to also trigger the sound that'll dampen the sub bass for example.

as I said, loads of ways to approach it.

IIRC these are REX files. There are many ways to do time-stretching, but it is not easy to create files that stretch well, and you have to choose the appropriate technology. REX files work well for percussive sounds with distinct spaces between hits, but Acidized files are generally a better choice for anything else.

Sample CDs are highly variable in terms of stretching. I get the feeling that sometimes people just bring a clip into Sonar, turn on looping, and figure it's Acidized. NO!!! You have to tweak the transient markers and make choices about how best to stretch.

I put a huge amount of effort into the stretching for loop librarires I've released over the years, so I recognize good stretching when I see it. For Acidized files, Sony definitely does the best, most consistent job. FWIW I Acidized the files for the early Discrete Drum libraries and am very happy with how they turned out.

I gave a seminar on looping once and played a loop from a commercially-available CD. It did a horrible job of stretching. Someone in the audience said "I thought they were just supiposed to sound that way, and there's nothing you can do." I loaded the loop in Sonar, tweaked it, and about five minutes later had a loop that stretched really well from 80 to 160BPM. So, it IS possible.

REX files give the best fidelity, but ONLY with very specific types of source material. I just used some of the bundled Sample Magic loops in Sonar for a video on using Matrix View, and several of them worked very well.

thanks Craig, that's very interesting and useful.