ToneRite ?

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The Maillard Reaction
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2011/07/08 14:13:41 (permalink)

ToneRite ?


http://tonerite.com/

What do you think?


I had several long conversations with one of the endorsers, Mr. Eric Scoenberg, and he's never seemed to be the kind of person who needs to do anything he's not 100% interested in.

I'm intrigued.


best regards,
mike


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    bitflipper
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/08 15:17:05 (permalink)
    Not buying it. Not without a scientific explanation, anyway.



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    #2
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/08 15:36:09 (permalink)
    I gather the scientific explanation is that everything is already vibrating real fast... some  how the "experience" of vibrating in tune predisposes the structure to become resonant at the desired frequencies.

    The idea doesn't seem to address Helmholtz theory but I guess that is contextual to the basic design of the acoustic chamber.

    I have learned of stranger things. For example; the atoms within a piece of aluminum that has been cold forged, will remain in motion for several days after the process has been completed... but a human could never perceive this by vision or touch.



    I have no idea... is there some empirical science that has proven that wooden structures can be encouraged to resonate at certain ranges of frequency?


    best regards,
    mike



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    drewfx1
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/08 16:55:58 (permalink)
    There has been at least a little bit a proper scientific study of the effect of long term vibration on wood.

    Some time back, I downloaded a title called The Acoustics of Wood, by Voichita Bucur, which is available for purchase or download if you google it.

    Warning: It is a real academic-style, science book, and not intended for normal people to read and understand, so it's a real struggle to read. 

    Here is an excerpt (from Chapter 7, Factors Affecting Acoustical Properties of Wood for Musical Instruments, 7.2.3 Influence of Long-Term Loading):

    Examining the rheology of the system represented by the violin, a fatigue phenomenon is observed under a superimposition of two regimes: one dynamic, when the instrument vibrates during play, and another static, induced by the stress of the strings. To simulate in simplified manner the changes induced in a violin by playing it, specimens or violins loaded for a long
    period of time can be used.

    The scientific literature is very scarce on data concerning the influence of long-term mechanical loading on acoustical properties of resonance wood or those of on solid wood in general. Manasevici (1962) reported data on the effect due to 51 days of continuous flexural resonance vibration on the behavior of common pine wood specimens (20×50×1,000 mm). The amplitude of vibration was recorded. The maximum value of the amplitude was recorded at the 15th day of the experiment. During the following days, the amplitude decreased from the maximum value to a value higher than the initial value measured at the beginning of the experiments. Unfortunately the author did not report data on the resonance frequency or on the quality factor for the assessment of the modifications induced in the specimens.

    Sobue and Okayasu (1992) studied the effect of continuous small amplitude vibrations on Young’s modulus and internal friction (tan 􀁇) in different species (softwoods and hardwoods). The free−free flexural vibration with small amplitude (from 0.015−0.40 mm) and frequency (100−170 Hz) was applied for 5 h. Young's modulus EL was not affected by the vibrational regime; rather the internal friction parameter tan 􀁇L decreased from 5 to 15%.
    It goes on similarly about other stuff and breaking of hydrogen bonds and cellulose chains and whatnot.


    But that doesn't mean I personally wouldn't still be skeptical...


     In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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    quantumeffect
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/08 17:11:16 (permalink)

    The play-in process is the scientific phenomenon in which the quality and volume of sound from an acoustic instrument increases with constant stimulation. The ToneRite® efficiently and safely transfers energy into the instrument, which allows the instrument to resonate freely and increase its volume, tone, balance, and playability. The secret behind the ToneRite® is a small high-g vibration that can silently excite the body of an instrument for long periods at a time. Through this process of de-dampening, the instrument can freely resonate as a whole.


    hmm …. “constant stimulation” … “high-g vibration”

    I didn’t know guitars had a g-spot or whatever it is that high-g vibration vibrates but, in any event, your guitar is going to love you

    Sorry to be a nitpick but atoms are always in motion … metal working changes the way atoms arrange themselves (bit of an over simplification).

    I guess the idea is to shorten the break-in period???  I’ve heard of drummers doing stranger things with their cymbals (i.e., burying them in the ground for several months) to get that magic of an aged Zidjian. And apparently there is much debate in the violin community as to whether there is a such thing as a change in sonic character of the instrument after a period of playing.

    So, my thought is, if you ascribe to the hypothesis that the playing of the instrument affects either the cellular make-up of the wood (cells) or the mechanical make-up of the instrument as a whole (or both … and presented without further explanation because “I got none”) then a high frequency vibration applied to the instrument for a prescribed period of time could plausibly achieve the same effect.

    I ultimately offer no opinion on whether it works or not and I guess it is certainly plausible but that said, I am a non-believer in single data point experiments (i.e., I used it and my guitar sounded better).

    here are a couple of “articles” in support of instrument break-in:
    http://www.henrystrobel.com/vibrate.htm
    http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/powerhousetwins.html
    post edited by quantumeffect - 2011/07/08 17:13:03

    Dave

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/08 17:41:09 (permalink)
    I've sorta been aware of the basic concept of "playing in" an acoustic instrument and I sorta think I've experienced it happening.

    I stumbled upon the mention of this gadget today and found it sort of interesting.

    I have on occasion left my guitar sitting close to a loud speaker... I admit to having whimsically thought that it couldn't do any harm for the guitar to vibrate to some good music.

    The links and the excerpt are kinda interesting. Thanks.

    :-)




    When I mentioned Mr Schoenberg... I thought he was a credible example because he is a guy with a professional reputation for having a very detailed ear for acoustic guitar tone.

    Martin itself credits Mr Schoenberg with having helped them reestablish a standard to build too back in the mid 1970s. They say the whole vintage or golden era line is the result of Mr. Schoenberg's consultation.

    So when he says he's been using the device on every guitar in his shop... my ears perk up.

    Anyways...

    best regards,
    mike


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    DeeringAmps
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/08 19:10:53 (permalink)
    Robert Benedetto discussed at length that his guitars must be "played in".
    This was at the Luthiers of America convention some years ago.

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    Zuma
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/08 19:33:35 (permalink)
    Everything is energy... even dead wood. Science must breakdown at certain points and either reinvent/rethink itself or spin around in circles until it realizes there may be laws outside of it's existing, already established laws... it's ultimate discovery will be the fact that we create matter out of energy... out of ourselves... I AM. Consciousness creates life, not the other way around. :)

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    n0rd
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/08 23:44:25 (permalink)
    Just my SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guess):
    Passing resonate frequencies through the body of an object speeds up the process of compression and tension forces which the object would sustain over long duration of playing.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/10 17:19:26 (permalink)
    I think a play in or break in period on an instrument is the time it takes the instrument to finally "relax" into the place where it doesn't move any more. And I heard that the vibrations of the strings also works on the atoms in the wood the same way a smoker compresses the tobacco in a cigarette by tapping it on a solid object a few times. The atoms are moved by the compression forces applied by the strings and the player.  The vibrations of the strings simply allow them to move a very tiny bit to make the wood a bit harder.

    That's my unscientifically proven guess.

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    Kalle Rantaaho
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/10 17:44:09 (permalink)
    My fully unscientific opinion:

    If an acoustic guitar is on a guitar stand in a room with any movement - people walking around, a door closed/opened, people speaking, somebody playing an instrument etc. etc. - the body of the guitar vibrates all the time, and the strings enhance the vibration. I'm quite sceptical about this tool creating "special vibration" that would make the instrument more "alive". I'm not saying it's not possible, but....

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/10 21:30:30 (permalink)
    Then of course, there is how or if temperature and humidity affect this process.

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    quantumeffect
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    Re:ToneRite ? 2011/07/11 01:25:37 (permalink)


    If an acoustic guitar is on a guitar stand in a room with any movement - people walking around, a door closed/opened, people speaking, somebody playing an instrument etc. etc. - the body of the guitar vibrates all the time, and the strings enhance the vibration. I'm quite sceptical about this tool creating "special vibration" that would make the instrument more "alive". I'm not saying it's not possible, but....


    Kinda' like this ... but for a Les Paul?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6zw6RSZzU
    post edited by quantumeffect - 2011/07/11 01:27:44

    Dave

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    "Everyone knows rock n' roll attained perfection in 1974. It's a scientific fact." H. Simpson

    "His chops are too righteous."  Plankton during Sponge Bob's guitar solo 
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