Vanguard reseting to default bank in Sonar 8.5 after reopening projects

Hey ovni,

I'm not having that problem with Vanguard on my system, but I'm using X1 PE.  I tried it with both 32-bit and 64-bit X1.  Also, I should mention that I didn't even realize that 1.8 was out, so I loaded up v1.72 first and tried it. just in case it was a problem with v1.8, but the presets loaded fine in 32-bit and 64-bit X1.  Then, I downloaded the 1.8 update (thanks for the heads-up!) and opened the same project file in both 32-bit and 64-bit X1 and the presets loaded just fine.  Maybe it's just an issue with Sonar 8.5???  Hope you get it sorted!

Good post!


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Trying to further investigate this issue, i took a look at different things in sonar and came accross something that at first I thought made
 a case for the issue
being sonar related, but when i went through the same process with other synths it left me more confused!
Looking at any and all of Vanguard's Instrument/midi Tracks, in the "Track view" (be it 'Simple Intrument Tracks' or 'Midi Source' tracks),
where one can select the Midi In/Out, Midi CH, Bank, and Patch (Presets) for the Instrument, I noticed that eventhough the patch selection
field always shows 'None' as the patch selected, but if you the click on it's 'down arrow/drowpdown menu' it will display Vanguard's
default/factory bank's full list of presets, and it will do this even if you have just loaded a different bank on to the plugin itself.
I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this way of patch selection in sonar was designed to be used for outboard synths.
Still, i attempted to find a way to make changes of bank using this method by double clicking on the midi/instrument tracks and try to make changes
on the 'Track Properties' dialog. But no luck.
When I attempted this with other synths it became clear that the banks and patches shown here, will always be the default patches that the instrument
initialises with when inserted into the project, and there's no apparent way to navigate to other banks or patches (fxb. or fxp.'s) you may have in
your drive from here.
To add another unecessary layer of confusion, I noticed that When attempting to change patches through the 'Synth Rack', some synths will show
the preset list for the recently loaded new bank (other than the default/factory bank),(Albino 3, Z3ta+) while others will show only the preset list
of the default bank that the instrument initialises with when inserted into the project (V-station, Vanguard), and other's will show a list of presets
by the name of '<disabled>' (Massive) and only a very short list of what seems to be the most used presets for this plugin that Sonar will remember
(Imageline's Sawer) or a combination thereof.
Vanguard, however, is the only plugin that will revert to its default/factory bank upon reopening the project.
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By the way, Some will display the full list of any presets that have been saved using Sonar's 'VST Preset Options' menu at the top left of the
plugin's 'properties' view (main view). What's the deal with this dialog looking different for some plugins?
Vanguard & V-station only show a 'on' and 'file' buttons and the list of presets displayed are only for the currently loaded bank.
I seem to remember many of these plugs only showed the 'more friendly' type ('VST Preset Options' menu) and after Sonar 8 or 8.5 the other
less friendly (on' and 'file' buttons only) started to appear for a some of these plugins.
hmmm...the older plugs that haven't been updated in a couple of years.
(Vanguard, however, is the only plugin that will revert to its default/factory bank upon reopening the project...is there's an pattern in here?)
Come to think of it, the 64 bit versions display the 'VST Preset Options' menu and the 32 bit plugs show the other one. Does that sound right?
anyone care to comment on that?
Could the Vanguard issue be a 32 bit bridge thing?
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Anyway, I hope any of the info relating to the Vanguard issue is useful for however wants to look into it (Cakewalk or reFX).
I gotta go 'reload' some patches...again!

P.S. A fellow Sonar user had a very enlightened approach to solving this problem..."USE ANOTHER SYNTH!"...wise them words!

ovni


Such a waste of time!...if the link is right, they're running late and unless the v.2 can load v.1's presets i've wasted my time!...

http://computermusicguide.com/archives/938

reFX has been talking about V2 for nearly 2 years now.  They had a thread on their forum last year before they shut down the forum, and they kept pushing back the release date.  Also, based on some of the threads I've seen on KVR, there was apparently some sort of falling out between Manuel and the developer who was leading the coding effort last year.  Anyway, I've given up on it and written it off as vaporware, but maybe they'll surprise me.

So here's what i got from Michael Hartmann @
reFX...maybe the issue is specific to my set up in Sonar?

____________
Michael Hartmann

Hi Ovni,

we've never heard of this problem before. Also the 1.8.0 update didn't change anything, except add RTAS-compatibility.

So if you still have a previous version that works fine, just continue using that version.

Regards,
Mike

OVNI

Thank you for responding. I'm still confused as to what may be the problem. I've gone back as far as the 1.51 version and the issue still persists.
I hadn't used Vanguard for a while and I only begin using Vanguard again very recently a few months after i updated to sonar 8.5 64 bit.
The issue could have been introduced there.
I've had some fellow Sonar users (of Sonar X1 version) pretty much reproduced the problem in their set up with Vanguard's 1.8 version.
I was wondering if it had something to do with both of these Sonar versions being 64bit? or Sonar's 32bit bridge management being the source of the issue?

I'm curious, Are there any plans on releasing any future versions of Vanguard ...Vanguard 2? if so, will it load the old V1 patches/presets?

Thanks so much for your time!

Michael Hartmann

Yes, Vanguard 2 is in development, but it won't be able to load V1 presets, because it's a complete re-write.

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Let's give it another two years then...Z3ta 2 came back July, err, I mean August... :)

I've continued to waste my time trying to figure this issue out and I think my huntch of it being related to
the 64 bit vs. the 32 bit Sonar versions is correct.
i can't be positive Whether the issue lies directly in Sonar or Vanguard, but my gut tells me is Vanguard, since it's
the only vsti i'm having this issue with and since as far as i know, there was never a 64bit version relased. Anyone
care to verify that?
I'm running SOnar 8.53 64 bit version, and i remembered that i never installed the 32bit version.
Going on Cryophonic's findings, I decided to install Sonar 8.53 32bit version as well as Sonar X1 demo (64 & 32 bit
versions) to try and replicate this results.
On both 32-bit versions of Sonar 8.53 and SOnar X1 there's no issue whatsoever with Vanguard. THe last saved patch is
recalled upon reopening a project.
However on both 64-bit versions of Sonar, Vanguard will display that 'buggy' behavior of quickly cycling thru the preset
list of the loaded bank when saving the project, and reseting back to the factory/default bank when the project is
reopened.
It may be an obvious fact to most, but i'll like to also point out that in the 32bit
versions of Sonar, the full/proper VST preset Manager is diplayed along the very top of Vanguard's display (property window),
along with the 'act', S, RD, W, buttons.
::
 

On both of the 64-bit versions of Sonar, however, the basic (..ly non-functional) vst preset manager is displayed.
 (check out screenprints below)
 


 
 
Anyway, If the issue is due to Vanguard needing an '64 bit' update, (which it's where my $$ is, since everything works
fine on the 32bit version), it's probably not gonna happen.
BUt just in case, if anyone cares to test this out on their 64 bit system and happen to not expirience this issue with Vanguard,
please feel free to share any suggestions that you think may be reason for your set up working out properly.
 
THere's this suggestion during the installation about adding and additional vst scan path to use 32-bit plug ins
whe installing a 64bit version.
I wonder if this would to anything towards fixing the issue but it doesn't make much sense to me.
I have set up the same single path for both versions of Sonar and all plugins work fine except for this one. If there's a 64 bit version of a plugin, I've simply created a separate folder inside the same main 'VST plugin' folder to keep both 32 & 64 bit .dll's separate.