g_randybrown
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 09:55:20
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wwzeitler
Danny Danzi
It pains me to say this Randy, but I just can't seem to use Sonar with video. I HAVE done it, but I just felt like I was fighting with it too much. I would love to use Sonar for everything and I know it's possible...but unfortunately for me, it just doesn't give me the right power like say, Sony Vegas...which is what I use these days. Simple, effective and it really does a nice job on all sorts of video media without any quirks or hang-ups. I very well could be using Sonar improperly...but I just don't have the tools and options I need for what I do in Sonar.
-Danny
Vegas and Sonar are two entirely different beasts. Vegas is a video editor: it supports multiple audio tracks but doesn't support midi at all. Sonar is music editor (audio & midi) that supports video playback (a bit fussy, but it works) but no video editing. Two very different tools in the toolbox.
Of course and I don't think anyone would argue that (at this point in technology) it should be different...and the latest version of Vegas has it's own set of fussy issues. However to be able to take the final video edit into Sonar and scrub etc (like I'm guessing one can do in PT) Sonar could very well increase it's market.
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 09:55:48
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Chappel
Danny Danzi
Right Randy, no midi at all. Most times, all my music is done in Sonar. I've rarely used Vegas for any audio. But for video...man, I just haven't found anything better. I just love the whole track thing where it treats video as just another track in the scheme. It's really easy to edit in as well. But yeah, all my midi is in Sonar at all times. But I have done some audio work in Vegas with good results. I'll have to test the midi in it....I've never even tried it before but did configure it. Hmm...something for me to mess with tonight. LOL! :) Yeah I'm with you, I don't mind using a few different applications...but I seriously wouldn't mind using Sonar for everything. I TRY to use it for as much as I can...but for certain things...there are (in my opinion) a few applications that just seem to do things better...at least for me.
-Danny
There is definitely an opportunity for Cakewalk to create a new product that has both professional audio and video capabilities. I bet there's an untapped market for a program that would allow someone to do it all instead of having to purchase two (or more) separate programs to create music and video. Someone is going to do it someday and they're going to make a ton of money with it.
Pro Tools and Nuendo. Today.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 09:58:15
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Danny Danzi
wwzeitler
Danny Danzi
It pains me to say this Randy, but I just can't seem to use Sonar with video. I HAVE done it, but I just felt like I was fighting with it too much. I would love to use Sonar for everything and I know it's possible...but unfortunately for me, it just doesn't give me the right power like say, Sony Vegas...which is what I use these days. Simple, effective and it really does a nice job on all sorts of video media without any quirks or hang-ups. I very well could be using Sonar improperly...but I just don't have the tools and options I need for what I do in Sonar.
-Danny
Vegas and Sonar are two entirely different beasts. Vegas is a video editor: it supports multiple audio tracks but doesn't support midi at all. Sonar is music editor (audio & midi) that supports video playback (a bit fussy, but it works) but no video editing. Two very different tools in the toolbox.
Hmm Vegas doesn't have any midi at all? I could have sworn I configured for midi and just never tested it out. I'll take your word for it. I'm going to take a look at what the heck I configured though....I could have sworn it allowed me to configure my MOTU. I'm probably confused with something else. Thanks for the response....but yeah, I was aware they were comnpletely different animals. The reason I asked about Sonar though, was because I've read a few posts where people were using it and have seen a few video's where people used it as well. Yet for the life of me, I couldn't do the things I needed to do in the video area and was wondering just how much these people in the vids, used Sonar for the video part. :)
-Danny
Vegas is a video editor designed for making home movies, internet porn, and a few cable shows that end up on channel 300. Why would it have MIDI? best, mike
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g_randybrown
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 10:00:57
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I could have sworn it allowed me to configure my MOTU. I'm probably confused with something else. Yessir, I believe that you can configure Vegas with a controller such as this but not for interacting with a vsti
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 10:03:58
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A lot of MOTU gear has the word clock input.
They were pioneers in bringing that to the lower price points.
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SCorey
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 10:35:07
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The majority of my Sonar work these days is dialog and music editing to video. A while back I did a test of a lot of video codecs to find out the best ones for Sonar. Part of my criteria was how well it would scrub. Tests done on a reasonably fast i7 machine of some sort... The results: 64-bit Sonar - avi with mjpeg codec. The hands down winner. Scrubs forward and back fantastically. Transport playback is virtually instantaneous.
- avi with mpeg4-part 2 codec. Scrubs really well, transport is fairly snappy. I also lump the DivX codec here, since it's similar enough. (but not the DivX h.264 variant).
- avi with various DV codec variants. Works very well (as has been noted)
- avi with various uncompressed codecs. Works pretty well. But you take a disk bandwidth and storage hit
- mpeg1 file. Works kinda ok. Scubbing is a bit jerky.
- wmv with the various microsoft versions and variants of codecs. Works pretty well, scrubbing a bit jerky.
32-bit Sonar
- Same as the above except we now get Quicktime support
- mov with mjpeg codec. Again, hands down winner. Too bad Apple calls it a "legacy" codec.
- mov with mpeg4 part 2 codec. Works well
- mov with h.264 codec. Sluggish transport and scrubbing. Works, but not well.
- mov with jpeg2000 codec. Kept crashing on me. This is the successor to mjpeg. Whether it's QT or Sonar or my video drivers crashing, I hope it will get fixed.
Since my video editors are all on Macs with FinalCut, I have them send me mov files with the mpeg4 codec. It works well. But for snappy performance and stable operation in both 32 and 64 bit Sonar, an avi with the mjpeg codec is the clear winner.
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John T
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 10:39:22
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Ah, excellent info, thank you.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 10:44:51
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"mov with h.264 codec. Sluggish transport and scrubbing. Works, but not well."
It may be helpful to remind folks that they may see these labeled as .mp4 files as well.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 11:12:43
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It's also helpful to consider that motion jpeg, which is the codec that made both Media 100 and Avid house hold names for a decade of revolution in the editing business, has the largest file size of all the codecs mentioned today. It is a great example of large file sizes streaming successfully on today's disks and controllers. The MJPEG codec is essentially the same codec as the still image variety and there is a minimum of CPU work needed to display each and every frame. It uses spatial compression rather than temporal compression. Motion JPEG large files size: not a problem easy on the cpu: a great benefit when you wish to use the CPU for other things. DV25 makes for a happy compromise... you get smaller files but more cpu use when compared to MJPEG. The most important thing is that musicians become comfortable converting the video to something suitable for their system... some seem to feel obliged to use the source format and then encounter difficulties. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/07/21 11:28:51
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g_randybrown
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 11:46:33
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Vegas is a video editor designed for making home movies, internet porn, and a few cable shows that end up on channel 300. Why would it have MIDI? best, mike
That's gotta be the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say Mike. There have been feature films made in Vegas and even I have done 2 TV series (CBS and PBS...both of which ran for 2 seasons) with it as well as a couple of regional documentaries.
post edited by g_randybrown - 2011/07/21 11:49:31
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 12:29:53
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g_randybrown
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 13:01:51
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mike_mccue
Did you use motion JPEG?
No sir, back then I delivered everything NTSC DV either on tape or DVD... but Vegas can render to motion JPEG if you install the Avid codec.
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 13:16:09
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I guess the networks accept a DVD as a master tape so they can fit more on the shelf. :-). I wonder when they'll start transferring via 1080P YouTube? edit to add: re: NTSC DV on tape: perhaps that was Panasonic DVCPro50? or Sony Digi Beta?
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/07/21 13:18:06
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SCorey
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 16:47:59
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It's also helpful to consider that motion jpeg, which is the codec that made both Media 100 and Avid house hold names for a decade of revolution in the editing business, has the largest file size of all the codecs mentioned today.
Motion JPEG large files size: not a problem easy on the cpu: a great benefit when you wish to use the CPU for other things.
DV25 makes for a happy compromise... you get smaller files but more cpu use when compared to MJPEG. That seems to imply that motion jpeg has a fixed, defined bitrate, which is not the case. Motion Jpeg can be smaller than any DV variant when you drop down the bitrate. When you create them, you can choose the bitrate you want. I hope it's obvious that a lower bitrate means lower visual quality. There are tradeoffs for all these considerations. All my mjpeg video files are much smaller than their DV25 counterparts would be, and are visually only somewhat worse. They're good enough for the work I do, and good enough for the producers when they come to view works-in-progress. You can use an mjpeg bitrate that is the same as DV25 and get an equivalently sized file but better scrubbing performance in Sonar.
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g_randybrown
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Re:Anyone score for video?
2011/07/21 17:41:44
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Anyone tell me how to get back my video whenever X1 loses focus (ie when I open my Delta control panel)? There was one time it hid behind the multi-dock on my 2nd monitor...another time I just reloaded the project and now I can't find it anywhere but surely there's a toggle somewhere? Thanks, Randy EDIT: sorry I found the shortcut....been a long day
post edited by g_randybrown - 2011/07/21 17:43:25
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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