Helpful ReplyRecording Studio Tips (climate control)

Author
daeser1
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 218
  • Joined: 2008/08/18 01:58:22
  • Status: offline
2011/07/21 00:02:53 (permalink)

Recording Studio Tips (climate control)

I have a small cabin on my property that i am trying to turn into a recording studio. I'm having a friend build me a smaller one person booth to fit within the recording studio. One of my current issues with the cabin is climate. It seems to really heat up inside of it and i am afraid that this may damage equipment and also make it a very unpleasant recording environment. I don't want any noisy fans (for obvious reasons, and so i am stuck. Not sure what kind of cooling equipment i should get. I don't need anything to heavy duty as the cabin is not very big (see pix bellow).
Another issue is security for the studio, which i am also working on, but would love to hear what other people have done to keep their equipment safe.

Any other tips would be much appreciated. Here are some pix of the space I'm working with.
" border="0" />


post edited by daeser1 - 2011/07/21 00:38:18
#1
Old55
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 19791
  • Joined: 2008/09/19 20:10:05
  • Location: Californiashire
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 00:52:36 (permalink)
I'd suggest starting with ventilation.  If you have good ventilation, you won't need so much noise-making, heat generating, and potentially expensive AC or other cooling equipment.  It's just like setting up room acoustics before buying a lot of expensive audio equipment. 

Good luck on your studio,
Jan

Should auld acquaintance be forgot--hey, who the hell are you guys?  
 
X2(X3 pending hardware upgrade), Emulator X2, E-mu 1212M, Virtual String Machine
#2
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 04:59:01 (permalink)
Blimey - that's a loaded question.

Where do you live? What's the average temperature? What are the temperature extremes over the course of a year?

Security? Not trying to be funny, but I could break into your cabin inside 2 minutes. how far away is it from your main property? If it's close enough then I guess alarming it is going to be the best option.

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#3
Danny Danzi
Moderator
  • Total Posts : 5810
  • Joined: 2006/10/05 13:42:39
  • Location: DanziLand, NJ
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 06:38:44 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I posted some stuff that may help you in your other thread here: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2349137

My Site
Fractal Audio Endorsed Artist & Beta Tester
#4
The Maillard Reaction
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 31918
  • Joined: 2004/07/09 20:02:20
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 07:19:26 (permalink)
Every cabin needs a hound dawg for security.

The best security is to refrain from telling all your neighbors what you keep in the cabin.


#5
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 08:12:47 (permalink)
I like the guy who converted his garage into a studio, then put the original doors back on the front so that it still looks like a garage

CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#6
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 7563
  • Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 12:32:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
 
  If you have high outdoor temps/humidity where you live, I would consider air conditioning. Most studios need some kind of conditioning. You can condition the air and still allow 10% outdoor air into the system to keep things from getting stale. From the looks of the cabin you probably have at least that with just air cracks in the structure lol!

  If you record with a laptop you will greatly reduce both security concerns and some heat/noise problems caused by computer gear.
Maybe this isn't possible and you want outboard gear and such to really get the job done. Then you are faced with removing the heat not only from the cabin but also from the equipment that you plan to run there.
 
 In order to cool the cabin you obviously need to remove more heat than is added. There are Heat load calculations that can be run to determine how many btus of air conditioning you need. You will need the R value of the walls,roof etc.the area in which you live,how the building is situated with respect to sunlight. For a studio you also need to factor in the heat given off by all the equipment and people in the space. ........and how much moola you have to spend.

 From your pics I see both good and bad.

Pro- You don't have a very large space to condition.

Cons- There isn't much in the roof to keep heat from radiating right onto you on a hot day.
 There is a lot of glass for the size of the space and the building overall does not look to be well insulated but I could be wrong on this!

  If I were trying to do this on the cheap I would insulate the space very well especially the area between the roof and the ceiling and allow as much heat from the roof to escape as possible with roof vents( I am guessing that you have a ceiling and your not looking at the roof). Then I would invest in something like a ductless split system A/C or heat pump like this-

Ductless Split System

 Don't let the price on that link scare you......I have seen similar Korean made units for much much less. You would also need to decide on what size to buy based on the heat load calcs.......this isn't as complicated as it may seem though. They only make certain sizes of these,just get the one that most closely matches what you need.

 All A/C systems need a fan to move the air inside of the space. The newer ductless systems are so quiet you almost can't hear then running.Some of them are so quiet I have to really listen to hear them running.

 I'll share a few tricks with you that maybe you could use that have worked well for me. I am in a bedroom studio on a central A/C system but some of this could help you.

   I turn off my A/C system for a short time if I am critically tracking vocals. Most of the time this is only a few minutes so things don't get hot that quickly. If I'm mixing my system is usually not heard anyhow and recording keys or guitars direct does not require me to turn it off.

 I use a tower to record with internal heat sink cooling and I have a temp monitor readout on my case that tells me the case temp and the CPU temp. I can manually turn this system off. When I'm tracking vocals I will turn the cooling off and sometimes even cover the case with a sound deadener. It takes at least 20 minutes for my CPU to only start to get hot and it would take much longer than that for things to ever get critical tempwise.....this is how I can track vocals in the same room with my computer and have yet to have any problems!

  You could get a small exterior packaged A/C system as well but be prepared to do a little more work to get it installed.The variable speed blower in the better of those are nice and quiet too!If you go that route the way the ducts are routed and the type of materials can greatly reduce noises.
 

 
#7
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 7563
  • Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 12:36:45 (permalink)
Starise


 
If you have high outdoor temps/humidity where you live, I would consider air conditioning. Most studios need some kind of conditioning. You can condition the air and still allow 10% outdoor air into the system to keep things from getting stale. From the looks of the cabin you probably have at least that with just air cracks in the structure lol!

If you record with a laptop you will greatly reduce both security concerns and some heat/noise problems caused by computer gear.
Maybe this isn't possible and you want outboard gear and such to really get the job done. Then you are faced with removing the heat not only from the cabin but also from the equipment that you plan to run there.

In order to cool the cabin you obviously need to remove more heat than is added. There are Heat load calculations that can be run to determine how many btus of air conditioning you need. You will need the R value of the walls,roof etc.the area in which you live,how the building is situated with respect to sunlight. For a studio you also need to factor in the heat given off by all the equipment and people in the space. ........and how much moola you have to spend.

From your pics I see both good and bad.

Pro- You don't have a very large space to condition.

Cons- There isn't much in the roof to keep heat from radiating right onto you on a hot day.
There is a lot of glass for the size of the space and the building overall does not look to be well insulated but I could be wrong on this!

If I were trying to do this on the cheap I would insulate the space very well especially the area between the roof and the ceiling and allow as much heat from the roof to escape as possible with roof vents( I am guessing that you have a ceiling and your not looking at the roof). Then I would invest in something like a ductless split system A/C or heat pump like this-

Ductless Split System

Don't let the price on that link scare you......I have seen similar Korean made units for much much less. You would also need to decide on what size to buy based on the heat load calcs.......this isn't as complicated as it may seem though. They only make certain sizes of these,just get the one that most closely matches what you need.

All A/C systems need a fan to move the air inside of the space. The newer ductless systems are so quiet you almost can't hear then running.Some of them are so quiet I have to really listen to hear them running.

I'll share a few tricks with you that maybe you could use that have worked well for me. I am in a bedroom studio on a central A/C system but some of this could help you.

  I turn off my A/C system for a short time if I am critically tracking vocals. Most of the time this is only a few minutes so things don't get hot that quickly. If I'm mixing my system is usually not heard anyhow and recording keys or guitars direct does not require me to turn it off.

I use a tower to record with internal heat sink cooling and I have a temp monitor readout on my case that tells me the case temp and the CPU temp. I can manually turn this system off. When I'm tracking vocals I will turn the cooling off and sometimes even cover the case with a sound deadener. It takes at least 20 minutes for my CPU to only start to get hot and it would take much longer than that for things to ever get critical tempwise.....this is how I can track vocals in the same room with my computer and have yet to have any problems!

You could get a small exterior packaged A/C system as well but be prepared to do a little more work to get it installed.The variable speed blower in the better of those are nice and quiet too!If you go that route the way the ducts are routed and the type of materials can greatly reduce noises.





   On second thought. If I were really going to do this CHEAP I would go down the road to a friend who will give me the whole studio experience for 20$ an hour and cut my tunes there.lol!
#8
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10037
  • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
  • Location: SL,UT
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 12:50:39 (permalink)
Mitsubshi Mr. Slim.

http://catalog.mitsubishi...sy-a24na-2?&bc=100|1130|1132|1065|1066


LG and Sanyo have similar models.


cooling only, split system, ductless, quiet, energy efficient.

the sizing of these things, depends on several factors:

weather data from where you live (how humid, how hot, the unit has to be sized to do de-humidification AND cooling)

how much insulation/how tight the building (if you have drafty windows/walls, this could double your unit requirement)

there is no window unit that i know of, that would be quiet enough for use during actual sessions.


of course, you could run them 90 to nothing for 3 hours before the session, then turn them off.

there is no easy solution here, that doesn't cost bucks.


Bats Brew music Streaming
Bats Brew albums:
"Trouble"
"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
--
Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
 
#9
batsbrew
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10037
  • Joined: 2007/06/07 16:02:32
  • Location: SL,UT
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 12:51:42 (permalink)
you'll also have to add a 208v panel and service to run the condensing unit.

Bats Brew music Streaming
Bats Brew albums:
"Trouble"
"Stay"
"The Time is Magic"
--
Sonar 6 PE>Bandlab Cakewalk>Studio One 3.5>RME BFP>i7-7700 3.6GHz>MSI B250M>G.Skill Ripjaws 4 series 16GB>Samsung 960 EVO m.2ssd>W 10 Pro
 
#10
Starise
Max Output Level: -0.3 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 7563
  • Joined: 2007/04/07 17:23:02
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 14:01:32 (permalink)
 Yes Batsbrew those are also good units. I have installed 115 volt ductless
systems similar to this one

 The electric connection to the cabin might be lacking though from the pic.
#11
AT
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 10654
  • Joined: 2004/01/09 10:42:46
  • Location: TeXaS
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 14:11:48 (permalink)
Pretty open-ended question.  Where do you live?  Here in Texas we get what Chicago is gettig for weeks on end, so you can either get an airconditioner or have a sauna.  Up north the AC might not be so critical, but heat is, so you will probably need something.

It looks like you have a ceiling, so some kind of fan in the attic would be good.  It also looks like you have plenty of windows, which is good for fresh air, not so good for sound isolation or security.  For security, get a dog.  It don't have to be big - just noisy.  Insulation would help.  Double pane windows, storm windows, etc.  Some kind of AC/Heating unit.  Some kind of sealing around the bottom, too, from the looks of it.  Then you'll need to treat the inside of your box.

Sounds expensive, but if it is your property you can take your time.  AC/Heating shouldn't be a problem about half the year no matter where you live and the rest of it can be done gradually.

https://soundcloud.com/a-pleasure-dome
http://www.bnoir-film.com/  
 
there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
#12
daeser1
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 218
  • Joined: 2008/08/18 01:58:22
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 19:10:33 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey


Blimey - that's a loaded question.

Where do you live? What's the average temperature? What are the temperature extremes over the course of a year?

Security? Not trying to be funny, but I could break into your cabin inside 2 minutes. how far away is it from your main property? If it's close enough then I guess alarming it is going to be the best option.


I live in Santa Cruz, Ca. Doesn't get very hot here (not like texas), but it may get up around 100 on a really hot day (doesn't usually get much hotter). Generally its in the mid 70s year round, but that cabin tends to heat up very easily and it is often hotter within-it than outside of it.
It's only 65 to 70 feet from my bedroom. Not very far, and it is definitely within earshot, not to mention in-sight as well.

#13
daeser1
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 218
  • Joined: 2008/08/18 01:58:22
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 19:27:47 (permalink)
Starise


 Yes Batsbrew those are also good units. I have installed 115 volt ductless
systems similar to this one

The electric connection to the cabin might be lacking though from the pic.


I have 2 20 amp circuits.
I probably should have listed the equipment I'm using so that you may get an idea of how much heat they put off (and if they are sensitive to heat).
Here's what i got:

-2 KRK VXT8s
-1KRK 10s Sub
-2 HP desktops (one for using REASON & the internet, the other is strictly for Sonar 8 vocal recording).
The main desktop I use for recording has a temp gauge inside of it that i can control. It is usually kept at around 46 degrees i believe.
-1 Edirol UA-25EX interface
-1 M-Audio Profire 610 interface
-1 Tube MP preamp
-1 Blue Bird mic

That's pretty much it. I don't have any guitar amps or anything like that. In fact, i only record vocals.
How easy is it for equipment to get damaged by heat? How hot would it have to be?


 
#14
daeser1
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 218
  • Joined: 2008/08/18 01:58:22
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/21 19:34:26 (permalink)
AT


Pretty open-ended question.  Where do you live?  Here in Texas we get what Chicago is gettig for weeks on end, so you can either get an airconditioner or have a sauna.  Up north the AC might not be so critical, but heat is, so you will probably need something.

It looks like you have a ceiling, so some kind of fan in the attic would be good.  It also looks like you have plenty of windows, which is good for fresh air, not so good for sound isolation or security.  For security, get a dog.  It don't have to be big - just noisy.  Insulation would help.  Double pane windows, storm windows, etc.  Some kind of AC/Heating unit.  Some kind of sealing around the bottom, too, from the looks of it.  Then you'll need to treat the inside of your box.

Sounds expensive, but if it is your property you can take your time.  AC/Heating shouldn't be a problem about half the year no matter where you live and the rest of it can be done gradually.


I live in Santa Cruz, Ca. Doesn't get very hot here. Average is mid 70s. It can get up to 100, but won't stay there for more than a day or 2 and that's only during mid-day peak hours. The cabin, however, does seem to heat up the way a car does when it is in the sun. It is often hotter inside of the cabin than it is outside.
As for insulation, i have 2 spare bed mattresses..lol, Can i get any use out of them? What if i put them over the windows?

I have 3 dogs :)

#15
daeser1
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 218
  • Joined: 2008/08/18 01:58:22
  • Status: offline
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 16775
  • Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
  • Location: Bristol, UK
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/22 06:27:53 (permalink)
I think you have a couple of problems with these AC units. One is that several of them need to be vented, so proximity to an open window is a must.

The other problem is noise. None of these are particularly quiet, and if you also need an open window, the noise floor will rise dramatically.



CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughout
Custom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
#17
digi2ns
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 2694
  • Joined: 2010/11/24 14:27:12
  • Location: MICHIGAN
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/22 07:14:31 (permalink)
Another thing if you dont go with one like this  (http://catalog.mitsubishipro.com/item/mr-slim-m-series-air-conditioners/msy-wall-mounted-inverter-air-conditioners-systems/msy-a17na?)  and go with 1, 5 or 6 is to install a through wall drier vent connection for your exhaust.  This would eliminate some of your concerns with the windows.


MIKE

--Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64
--X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors 
--PCR500  
--MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra
--Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO
--Line6 X3 Live
--Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn
http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear#
 http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns  
 
 
 
 

#18
timidi
Max Output Level: -21 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 5449
  • Joined: 2006/04/11 12:55:15
  • Location: SE Florida
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/22 07:42:24 (permalink)
I had one of those roll around portable cooler units and it wasn't very good. (like the ones that you listed).
Actually, it was a piece of sh!t. 

You need one like batsbrew pointed out. 
You also need to do a whole lot of insulation work to the walls and ceiling and floor of that place.

ASUS P8P67, i7-2600K, CORSAIR 16GB, HIS 5450, 3 Samsung SSD 850, Win7 64, RME AIO.
 
https://timbowman.bandcamp.com/releases
 
#19
daeser1
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 218
  • Joined: 2008/08/18 01:58:22
  • Status: offline
Re:Recording Studio Tips (climate control) 2011/07/22 13:33:59 (permalink)

I ended up getting this one: 

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&productId=202562960&R=202562960

It was cheap, not very powerful, but definitely close to what I was hoping to spend. As for the hose that is attached, I may release the hot air out of the big vent on the top if the cabin. The cabin also has a strange fire place (mini stove) and I may be able to just shove the hose up that. Sorry if I wasted anyone's time. I just thought I'd get other people's opinion on this. As for noisiness, I'm going to cool the cabin prior to recording and then shut it off only during vocal recording.  
I came to this conclusion because: 
1) I didn't want to spend hundreds of dollars simply on an AC.
2) It really doesn't get super hot where I live (mainly 70°s), as I live only a few miles away from the beach (on the west coast). 
3) The cabin I am recording in is quite small and I don't record any live instruments nor do I have more than 2 or 3 people in the studio at a time. 
4) Time was of the essence as my equipment is currently in my studio apartment which also contains 2 cats and a somewhat destructive dog. So obtaining the air conditioner ASAP was definitely in my best interest so I could move my equipment to a safer location. 

With all of that said, if I had the money I would have definitely gone for one of the split systems. 
Thank you again for your help! :D 

#20
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1