adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
First note - volume issue?
Hello,
I seem to get this a lot. I hit play at the beginning of my project. Let's say there's a kick drum on every quarter note including the first one, it seems to be a bit softer than the others yet I have no controllers or anything changing. The rest of the kicks sound fine, but just that FIRST one.
Any help?
Thank you!!
Adam
|
digi2ns
Max Output Level: -48.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2694
- Joined: 2010/11/24 14:27:12
- Location: MICHIGAN
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/28 23:22:33
(permalink)
Does the velocity look any different in PRV (lower) for some reason?
MIKE --Dell Studio XPS I7/870 2.93 Ghz, 8GB Mem, 2-2TB Barracuda HDs, 500 GB Ext.HDD, Win7/64 --X1 64 Pro Expanded, Dual 21" Monitors --PCR500 --MAUDIO FastTrack Ultra --Mackie 1604 VLZ PRO --Line6 X3 Live --Gibson, Fender, Takamine, Schecter, Washburn http://pogopoppa.wix.com/5thgear# http://soundcloud.com/digi2ns
|
simpleman
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 262
- Joined: 2009/05/16 01:20:33
- Location: Down to Earth
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 02:31:33
(permalink)
Probably your sound driver. Is this ASIO?
Initial buffering to latency values; more prominent using WMD.
|
adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 07:03:33
(permalink)
COULD be the driver. Velocities are all the same. ASIO is not as good as WDM? I have an Audio Kontrol 1 by Native Instruments. THANK YOU!
|
Frank Haas
Max Output Level: -50.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2490
- Joined: 2005/01/14 06:32:54
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 08:15:23
(permalink)
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 13:41:40
(permalink)
Two possibilities I can think of:
1. You have a the MIDI volume control in the track enabled to increase the master volume level of the synth, and somehow the first note event is getting processed before the synth responds to the MIDI Volume setting. If so, you might try disabling Zero Controllers on Stop under Preferences > Project > MIDI, and see if the problem goes away after the initial playback. Or use only audio volume control for the track, and disable the MIDI volume widget.
2. Your project is running at 48kHz while the drum samples are 44.1kHz, and SONAR is exhibiting the same truncation issue with the first drum hit that it exhibits with the the 44.1kHz metronome samples in a 48kHz project, causing the first beat to be slightly distorted and lower level.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 14:26:46
(permalink)
If your first note is at 01:01:000 i.e. right at the very start of the track, you might experience some Midi weirdness - sometimes notes won't even play at all.
I suggest if none of the above suggestions work, move your entire song out to about 03:01:000 and see if this helps.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 14:31:18
(permalink)
I've had this issue for so many years I just ignore it now. It doesn't happen with any other DAWs here.
It also seems to be dependent on what plugins are loaded and what type (ie, synths or streaming samplers) in the project.
I strongly feel it is not a driver issue but a Sonar issue that's never been addressed - and it is very much an 'Asio' occurrence. I don't use WDM but I've never heard of anyone using WDM having this issue.
The fact that only Sonar has the issue speaks for itself I think.
|
adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 15:42:10
(permalink)
Actually it happens even if I am looking a measure or two in the middle of the track. First kick drum is lower.
Bristol_Jonesey
If your first note is at 01:01:000 i.e. right at the very start of the track, you might experience some Midi weirdness - sometimes notes won't even play at all.
I suggest if none of the above suggestions work, move your entire song out to about 03:01:000 and see if this helps.
|
adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 15:43:21
(permalink)
Ahh glad to know someone else has this problem! Yea I dont get it. it doesn't effect mixdowns thankfully. I have no plugins, clean new track, loading one drum synth and it still does it! Who knows but thanks for your reply. Btw, do you prefer ASIO or WDM?
ba_midi
I've had this issue for so many years I just ignore it now. It doesn't happen with any other DAWs here.
It also seems to be dependent on what plugins are loaded and what type (ie, synths or streaming samplers) in the project.
I strongly feel it is not a driver issue but a Sonar issue that's never been addressed - and it is very much an 'Asio' occurrence. I don't use WDM but I've never heard of anyone using WDM having this issue.
The fact that only Sonar has the issue speaks for itself I think.
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 15:55:28
(permalink)
Actually it happens even if I am looking a measure or two in the middle of the track. First kick drum is lower. That sounds like MIDI Volume/Zero Controllers phenomenon I described above.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 16:01:23
(permalink)
Thanks Brundlefly. I will definitely check this when i get back to my DAW later. THANK YOU!
brundlefly
Actually it happens even if I am looking a measure or two in the middle of the track. First kick drum is lower.
That sounds like MIDI Volume/Zero Controllers phenomenon I described above.
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 16:28:10
(permalink)
I will definitely check this when i get back to my DAW later. THANK YOU! Sure thing. BTW, what drum synth are you seeing this with? Can you reproduce it with another one?
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 16:35:12
(permalink)
ive reproduced it with many. Some synths, some samplers. Drumazon, Battery, etc....
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 17:23:02
(permalink)
I don't have either of those, but cannot reproduce with either Session Drummer, BFD Eco or Superior. If it's not something about how the track is set up, it may well be a driver/hardware issue.
Just occurs to me... do you have Fade on Start enabled, and if so, how long is it?
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 17:53:33
(permalink)
adamlewis7609
Ahh glad to know someone else has this problem! Yea I dont get it. it doesn't effect mixdowns thankfully. I have no plugins, clean new track, loading one drum synth and it still does it! Who knows but thanks for your reply. Btw, do you prefer ASIO or WDM?
ba_midi
I've had this issue for so many years I just ignore it now. It doesn't happen with any other DAWs here.
It also seems to be dependent on what plugins are loaded and what type (ie, synths or streaming samplers) in the project.
I strongly feel it is not a driver issue but a Sonar issue that's never been addressed - and it is very much an 'Asio' occurrence. I don't use WDM but I've never heard of anyone using WDM having this issue.
The fact that only Sonar has the issue speaks for itself I think.
Yes, it has never affected mixdowns or exporting, fortunately. And, as stated, it only seems to happen with ASIO drivers. I ONLY use ASIO, as is true for most I would think. WDM is still around but ASIO has become somewhat the standard and some audio devices don't even come with WDM drivers anymore. This is definitely a Sonar problem in my humble opinion. As I said, I just ignore it (as disturbing as it may be) and I double check my mixdowns/exports JUST in case.
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 17:54:32
(permalink)
brundlefly
Actually it happens even if I am looking a measure or two in the middle of the track. First kick drum is lower.
That sounds like MIDI Volume/Zero Controllers phenomenon I described above.
It might be for the OP -- but I have the Zero Controllers turned off, so it's definitely an ASIO buffer issue.
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 17:57:05
(permalink)
brundlefly
I don't have either of those, but cannot reproduce with either Session Drummer, BFD Eco or Superior. If it's not something about how the track is set up, it may well be a driver/hardware issue.
Just occurs to me... do you have Fade on Start enabled, and if so, how long is it?
Dave, For me (not necessarily the OP in this case), it's very dependent on the type of synth/sampler, patch, and other plugins in a project. IOW - there can be 100 times the problem does not happen. Then you start a new project, insert some stuff, and bam - the problem is there. But, that same project -- if re-created in another DAW does NOT have the issue. Only Sonar. I've examined/tested this many times over the years lol.
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 18:13:47
(permalink)
I've examined/tested this many times over the years I know you're a much more intensive user of soft synths than I am, and your projects are more complex, so I don't doubt it. I guess it'll just have to wait for a reproducible case, preferably using only Cake's bundled synths and FX.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 18:45:26
(permalink)
I have Zero Controllers Turned On, so its not that! ba_midi
brundlefly
Actually it happens even if I am looking a measure or two in the middle of the track. First kick drum is lower.
That sounds like MIDI Volume/Zero Controllers phenomenon I described above.
It might be for the OP -- but I have the Zero Controllers turned off, so it's definitely an ASIO buffer issue.
|
adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 18:46:15
(permalink)
Thanks everyone for your input... yea i think its just a little glitch that's lived in sonar since day 1 lol. THANK YOU ALL!!
|
adamlewis7609
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 110
- Joined: 2010/04/06 15:32:44
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 18:46:27
(permalink)
Thanks everyone for your input... yea i think its just a little glitch that's lived in sonar since day 1 lol. THANK YOU ALL!!
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 19:11:55
(permalink)
brundlefly
I've examined/tested this many times over the years
I know you're a much more intensive user of soft synths than I am, and your projects are more complex, so I don't doubt it. I guess it'll just have to wait for a reproducible case, preferably using only Cake's bundled synths and FX.
Dave, I remember either years ago - or at least awhile back - there was talk on here about the "first ASIO buffer" -- and I think that has something to do with it. Unfortunately I don't remember the specifics. Sonar doesn't have a pre-roll like many other DAWs that I think may contribute to this as well. There's been metronome issues over years / versions in a similar fashion.
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/29 19:12:55
(permalink)
adamlewis7609
Thanks everyone for your input... yea i think its just a little glitch that's lived in sonar since day 1 lol. THANK YOU ALL!!
Funny the things we get used to eh? 
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/30 12:58:47
(permalink)
I remember either years ago - or at least awhile back - there was talk on here about the "first ASIO buffer" Yeah, there have been many threads about problems associated with starting at 00:00:00:00. But my position on this has always been that if you have that problem, it's a hardware/driver issue (possibly with some interoperability contribution from SONAR), because I had it with my old M-Audio interface, and it went away with the E-MU 1820m. But even that problem was with MIDI to physical output ports; audio and softsynths were never a problem. Now I have an issue with the E-MU's audio ports going silent after rewind. I could lay this at Cakewalk's doorstep, too, as it doesn't happen in other DAW I've tried. But it didn't happen in SONAR, either, until I upgraded to Win7 x64 and E-MU's x64 driver. So whose fault is this one? All I'm saying is that just because SONAR is the only DAW in which you experience a problem, one can't conclude that SONAR is solely at fault. It could be the hardware/driver not strictly following some standard, or the standard being incomplete/unclear in some way. The only widely experienced issue I know of with starting at time zero that persists, and seems like it would be completely within SONAR's control, is the 44.1kHz metronome sample distortion in a 48kHz (or higher?) project. It seems logical that whatever limitation causes that problem might also manifest itself with synths that use 44.1kHz samples, and cause something like what you are describing, but I've never noticed it. All this is not to say that "preroll" or "negative" measures would not be a welcome enhancement, however. 
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|
ba_midi
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14061
- Joined: 2003/11/05 16:58:18
- Location: NYC
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/30 13:59:41
(permalink)
I agree that there can be situations where something "appears' to be the fault of the DAW yet isn't. Or the fault of the driver yet isn't.
It's always a tough call unless there's an absolute way to debug it.
But that's why, in this case, I just ignore it ;) It's not a showstopper. It's an annoyance (of which there are many in every software package).
I do think that when a situation seems to be solely happening in one DAW versus a FEW others, it's normal to think it's the one DAW that acts differently -- as it's unlikely "everyone else" is doing it wrong, so to speak.
|
brundlefly
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14250
- Joined: 2007/09/14 14:57:59
- Location: Manitou Spgs, Colorado
- Status: offline
Re:First note - volume issue?
2011/07/31 12:41:24
(permalink)
it's normal to think it's the one DAW that acts differently -- as it's unlikely "everyone else" is doing it wrong, so to speak. I agree; if a lot of different users are experiencing a problem with a lot of different hardware environments, you can probably blame it on the software. But I haven't really seen many reports of this particular problem, especially since the OP says it happens wherever he starts playback - not just at the beginning of the project.
SONAR Platinum x64, 2x MOTU 2408/PCIe-424 (24-bit, 48kHz) Win10, I7-6700K @ 4.0GHz, 24GB DDR4, 2TB HDD, 32GB SSD Cache, GeForce GTX 750Ti, 2x 24" 16:10 IPS Monitors
|