Editing Problem

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Jonateemik
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2011/07/29 23:30:46 (permalink)

Editing Problem

I've had MC 5 for a while now but still haven't completely figured it out.  I'll try to be as descriptive as possible...
First, when I hook up my keyboard to MC, I create a blank bus(?).  I create a MIDI track (recorded from my keyboard) for let's say chords.  Then I create another MIDI Track (track 2) for arpeggios.  First off, I can't understand how to do most of the editing.  But the main problem is that if I try to do something to Track 1, Track 2 always does the same thing.  How do I fix that?
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    Beagle
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/07/30 07:51:35 (permalink)
    welcome, jonateemik - how are you editing those tracks?  in the PRV?  Staff view?  or maybe you're trying to edit by using your keyboard and re-doing the parts?

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    #2
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/07/30 08:59:58 (permalink)
    We need more details to understand exactly what you ARE doing so we can help you fix it.

    So:

    Are you able to play the keyboard and get it to record the "notes" into the track?

    Then, does it play back when you do a "playback" of the tracks.....can you hear the music you just recorded?

    When you record a second track does that also do both of the above?

    Does the second track play in synch with the first?

    What exactly do you mean when you say: But the main problem is that if I try to do something to Track 1, Track 2 always does the same thing.  How do I fix that?

    Do you mean they both sound alike or that somehow they are connected so what gets edited in one is automatically changed in the second? Details please.

    I use staff view and select BOTH tracks. They will both show on the screen and you can edit either one. You can easily play back to hear if the edits you made are good or need to be redone.

    A midi track needs a soft synth instance to be able to reproduce the music.  You need to have two separate instances of a synth... one for each track and for now, while learning, make them different instruments.  One might be a grand piano and then make the other an electric piano so they sound different.

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    #3
    Jonateemik
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/05 20:13:30 (permalink)
    Sorry about the long reply wait.  I know it makes me look like I don't care very much, but I do.

    I edit the tracks through Track View.  I can't figure out the event view and staff view doesn't let me add effects (or does it?).

    Guitarhacker:  I record from my keyboard and each note shows up in staff view exactly how I played it.  I believe this is called a MIDI file?

    I can hear the music I have just recorded yes.  I can get it to come out of my computer speakers or out my keyboard speakers.  It sounds just like the way I have played it.

    When I record a second track, it does the same as the above.  I can either solo that track to hear only it or I can hear all of the tracks together (which is what I want as the finished product).

    Yes the second track is in sync. with the first one.

    I mean that if I try to, lets say, fade out Track 1, Track 2 would fade out along with Track 1.  So "somehow they are connected so what gets edited in one is automatically changed in the second" as you would say.

    I can use staff view to edit notes and what not but not to add effects such as fade.

    I just want to be able to fade or set a different volume for Track 2 that doesn't do the same thing to Track 1.  If I change the volume of Track 1, Track 2 is also set to that volume.  If I set Track 2 to fade out at a certian point during playback, when it fades out all of the other Tracks fade out along with it.

    I really don't care about adding effects such as arpeggiator, I really just want to be about to set Track 1's volume without it doing the same thing to ALL of the other Tracks in the project.  The main thing I planned to use this product for was to record myself playing, convert it to mp3, and email it to family/friends.  I could care less about all of the other things I could do with MC5 (although it would be nice to know them).

    And I can't make one track grand piano and the other electric piano because they are Midi tracks.


    Sorry if I'm confusing anybody, I'm trying to be as descriptive as possible.  Thank you so much for helping me becuase I was begining to see no hope in MC5.
    #4
    Jonateemik
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/05 20:19:27 (permalink)
    If I'm not being descriptive enough, I would be happy to make a video showing the process/outcome of which I am talking about...

    Need only ask.
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/05 21:34:10 (permalink)
    It is possible to group tracks and busses together so be sure they are not grouped. In the console view, simply click on the track fader and be sure it's a right click... the new window that opens will have GROUP as an option. You can select, or see the group that the fader is part of. When you pull the fader to the bottom, it will be touching a small colored rectangle to the lower left of center. That color light shows the group at a glance. If two tracks are in the same group, the actions to one affects the other.

    Right click the fader and select the top option in the window.... remove from group to release it.

     from the way you describe it, that's what it sounds like to me, they are grouped.

    The actions in one track should NOT affect the actions in a different track.

    I don't think you can add FX in staff view.... you must be in the track or console view and click on the FX bin to add FX.

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    gcolbert
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/05 21:51:56 (permalink)
    This may not seem clear at first, but MIDI tracks don't make any sound.  The sound comes out of your synth.  If you have two midi tracks going into the same synth and turn the volume up or down on the synth it will 'affect both of the MIDI tracks.'  For the simple example you are describing, insert a synth for each of the MIDI tracks (you can have more than one TTS-1 in a project - no worries).  Then you can adjust the output of each synth (and related MIDI track) independently.
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/05 22:00:34 (permalink)
    Gcolbert.... you are correct however......

    TTS is a 16 channel synth and each channel can operate independent of the next.....PLUS.... with TTS in (lets say track 1) on track and tracks 2 thru 10 having different patches and drums in 10, you can also control the levels of the instruments by the faders in the DAW's tracks.

    I have not used TTS in a long time but I do remember that from back then. I still use the midi track fader to adjust or "fine tune" the volume levels as well as the synth audio track fader.

    Back in the days when I was starting, I would set up one instance of TTS and pop in a bunch of midi tracks, assign each one to a channel in TTS and place a patch in each one. I would have many instruments playing in one instance of TTS and have total control of the levels of each individual track/instrument.

    Now, I tend to use the one instance=one instrument synths...and run as many instances as I need.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

    MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
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    "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
    #8
    57Gregy
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/05 22:09:43 (permalink)
    Sounds like a channel issue. If all the MIDI tracks are using the same channel, then all the MIDI track's will have the same instrument sound, regardless of the patch you select in tracks 2, 3 etc.
    Same goes for the volume and pan. If they're all on the same channel, moving any volume or pan control will act on all the MIDI tracks using that channel.
    Assuming you're using straight MIDI and no soft synths.
    post edited by 57Gregy - 2011/08/06 22:25:31

    Greg 
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    #9
    Jonateemik
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/06 22:12:24 (permalink)
    What you guys are saying makes sense.  Just to clarify, Im recording straight midi.  It comes in midi from my keyboard and goes out through my keyboard speakers.  Just thought I should say that incase it changes anything.

    Ill try your suggestions and get back to you soon. Thanks.

    I don't speak music - I play it
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    Beagle
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/07 07:21:01 (permalink)
    you still have to have separate channels for output even if you're using your keyboard as output.  you also have to have your keyboard set up to receive multiple channels, set it to receive as OMNI.

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    gcolbert
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/07 08:53:29 (permalink)
     gcolbert deleted message - Bad answer.
    post edited by gcolbert - 2011/08/07 08:58:22
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/07 08:55:17 (permalink)
    go to my website (below) and go to the music pages on MC4/5. I detailed the setup of TTS with several instruments each in a different channel and track.... perhaps that will help to clarify it in your mind.


    If not...come back here and ask specific questions based on the info on the page.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #13
    gcolbert
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/07 09:55:04 (permalink)
    So it sounds like what you are trying to do (we are all still guessing here) is record more than one track of MIDI on your keyboard anf then play the multiple tracks back on your keyboard.  If this is the case then you don't need TTS-1 or any of the soft synths that MC has.  You are using your keyboard as the sequencer and as the synth and as the amplifier.
     
    The first question you need answered in this case is "is your keyboard's synth multitimberal?"  If it is relatively new I would imagine that it is, but this may not be the case.  If it is, then you need to set up each of the MIDI tracks in MC to a different MIDI channel.  Be sure to set both the input for the track and the output for the track to the [your device] channel X.   Then set the patch on each channel on the keyboard to the settings that you want to play on that track.  For example, set the first channel patch to piano, the second channel patch to strings.
     
    If your synth is not multitimbral you will want to completely change your approach and use MC as the synth (utilizing TTS-1 or SFZ or any of the other available soft-synths) and play the sound output on your computer instead of your keyboard.  In this case, you would set the input for the track to a channel (or even OMNI) for your keyboard.  Then insert a soft synth and set the output of the MIDI track to that soft-synth.  Set the output of the soft-synth to your PC speakers or sound card or whereever you get sound out of your computer.
    #14
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/07 12:01:03 (permalink)
    Jonateemik.... are you still having problems?

    You mentioned a video.... make it IF you are still having problems...it might help us to understand the exact nature of the problem, and to see what you are doing and how to fix it.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    Jonateemik
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/07 15:01:54 (permalink)
    Ok I'm still messing around with thoughts.  About to look at your website Guitarhacker and see if that clears it up. 
    I keep hearing the word channel and not really sure what/how they work.  Gcolbert your description saved me on that one...  Let me try that really fast and get back to you.  Not sure if my keyboard is a synth multitimberal... It's a Yamaha YDP-S30 if that helps.  I got it about a year ago so it is relatively new.  Ill mess around with everyones comments and see what helps.

    I plan to convert this to Mp3 (which I think I know how to do since Cakewalk tells you how to but I need a cable.)  I just want the end result to sound good.

    Ill be back with results.
    post edited by Jonateemik - 2011/08/07 15:27:16

    I don't speak music - I play it
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    Jonateemik
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/07 15:20:17 (permalink)
    Gcolbert it worked.  Thank you for helping.  It's funny becuase I can almost swear I did that before.  But Im new to MC and having a hard time with it (as you can see) so I probably just thought I was doing that when I was probably making it worse.
    All of you thanks for helping.  Thanks for trying to understand my problem even though I'm terrible at giving details!  Im sure it gave some of you a headache.  Even if your comment/suggestion may not help me now, it certainly will in the furture when I realize the potential of MC and decide to go further with it.

    So as mentioned a few times above, I want to record my music and convert it to audio to be emailed to family/friends.  Converting is a whole other story for me... I've tried using Cakewalk's help but that is too advanced for me to understand as I really dont talk music tech.  So Ill try a few more times and what not and come back if I need help with that.

    Thanks again!
    post edited by Jonateemik - 2011/08/07 15:22:42

    I don't speak music - I play it
    #17
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Editing Problem 2011/08/07 20:21:25 (permalink)
    When I speak of channels I refer to the "channel" pf the midi signal.... like a radio channel or frequency. Since it's all on the same wire, it has to have a unique channel to keep all the data going to the correct synths ..... you set the channel address on the midi keyboard, and that data is only picked up and used by a synth with the same recieving address.  Another synth with a different address will ignore that data since the channel address doesn't match.

    By using the channels, you can send data from lets say 5 different midi tracks.... on channels 1 to 5, and send the data to 5 different synths all with unique channel input addresses, and the data goes to the proper synths..... in the case of TTS, that one synth is multi-timbral or multi channel... in TTS's case, up to 16 unique channels in that one synth, So.... data can be sent to 16 channels in TTS, and each one will play a totally different and independent sound patch.

    Hope that helps a bit.

    Once you get it, it's really pretty simple.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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