logic2sonar
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BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
Hi,
I am trying to copy a song over from Logic on my old PC into Sonar on my new PC.
I set Sonar to be the 'Slave' via MIDI and have successfully managed to record in all the previous recorded parts over to my new Sonar PC, (syncing caused a lot of crashes but eventually copied/recorded all tracks across!)
The problem is that the original song in Logic was 100.264 BPM but I can only set Sonar to 100.26 so there is a time slip that happens towards the end of the track.
Why can't Sonar do 3 decimal places? Is it not up to pro standards? It seems very poor that a lot of other DAWs can cope with this but Sonar can't. Why?!!
Before anyone says I should round down the tempo in Logic - the song was recorded for a pre-edited promo video which needed to match the tempo of some non-cleared music so the tempo can't be changed - it is 100.264 end of story!!!
Furthermore why should I do a work around in Sonar when I have spent a lot of money on something pretending to be a 'professional' piece of kit?!
If Logic can do 3 decimal places properly then why can't Sonar?!!
Do I need to give up on Sonar, screw the expense get a Mac and go back to Logic?!!
Seriously not impressed...
All input welcome!
Windows 7 Ultimate (64 Bit) Service Pack 1
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Chappel
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/04 21:48:32
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Yes, if dividing one beat per minute into one thousand increments is that important to you then Sonar is not the best tool for you. Logic is the way to go.
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Beagle
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/04 22:03:01
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you can always submit a feature request.
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logic2sonar
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/04 22:15:15
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yup - think it's a feature request then!
Just want to know why Sonar think it isn't a required part of their software when it appears to be pretty standard in lots of other software?
(I don't want to become a mathematical geek and transpose the BPM every bar to compensate, surely it would be good if Sonar just did it 'out of the box'?
PS - I'm learning to like a lot of Sonar once the learning curve gets more shallow, just expected it to be able to do what Logic did 10 years ago!!
Windows 7 Ultimate (64 Bit) Service Pack 1
Sonar X3 Producer (X3d patch installed)
Motu UltraLite mk3 Hybrid (Firewire External Sound device)
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 (2.83 GHz)
ASUS P5Q3 WiFi Deluxe Motherboard ATI Radeon HD4800 Series Graphics 4GB DDR3 RAM 256GB Solid State System Drive
250GB SATA Storage Drive (7200 RPM)
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logic2sonar
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/04 22:17:28
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PPS - I should have updated my signature, I upgraded recently to Sonar X1 Producer...
Windows 7 Ultimate (64 Bit) Service Pack 1
Sonar X3 Producer (X3d patch installed)
Motu UltraLite mk3 Hybrid (Firewire External Sound device)
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 (2.83 GHz)
ASUS P5Q3 WiFi Deluxe Motherboard ATI Radeon HD4800 Series Graphics 4GB DDR3 RAM 256GB Solid State System Drive
250GB SATA Storage Drive (7200 RPM)
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logic2sonar
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/04 22:23:23
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PPPS - Chappel, please read my post properly. I didn't set that ridiculous tempo a client did - I don't want to divide beats per minute into thousands at all. I was hoping Sonar would be able to match it like for like with Logic, but for some reason that's beyong the developers skills! Surely the whole point of music software is to take the pain out of recording, otherwise we might as well all go back to 1/4" tape and 'real-time' recording...
Windows 7 Ultimate (64 Bit) Service Pack 1
Sonar X3 Producer (X3d patch installed)
Motu UltraLite mk3 Hybrid (Firewire External Sound device)
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 (2.83 GHz)
ASUS P5Q3 WiFi Deluxe Motherboard ATI Radeon HD4800 Series Graphics 4GB DDR3 RAM 256GB Solid State System Drive
250GB SATA Storage Drive (7200 RPM)
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drewfx1
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/04 23:48:36
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Perhaps they didn't bother with 3 decimal places because in the real world, musicians don't work in hundredths of BPM.
But have you tried just selecting your entire project and choosing Process-Fit to Time (Modify by Changing Tempo Map)? It's there for exactly this sort of situation.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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logic2sonar
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/05 06:55:16
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Thanks drewfx1, I'll explore the 'fit to time' possibilities, but think it might get complicated as as I want to try and overdub some parts and re-export it to match back up with the video - so I really need to keep the original tempo (to match the one with 3 decimal places). I might look at tweaking the tempo map for each bar to see if I can stop the drif by the end of the track as then it should match up when added back to video.
I agree there is no musical reason to have 3 decimal places, I would never deliberately choose such an insane BPM for a song! I inherited the tempo from a video clip where the editor must have stretched the original music slightly to fit his edit, (or maybe it got stretched during the encoding process ever so slightly). Logic allowed me to compensate for this, so I was just wondering why Sonar doesn't have the same capability, or if there was a way of changing preferences or settings to add 3 decimal places somehow.
Windows 7 Ultimate (64 Bit) Service Pack 1
Sonar X3 Producer (X3d patch installed)
Motu UltraLite mk3 Hybrid (Firewire External Sound device)
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad CPU Q9550 (2.83 GHz)
ASUS P5Q3 WiFi Deluxe Motherboard ATI Radeon HD4800 Series Graphics 4GB DDR3 RAM 256GB Solid State System Drive
250GB SATA Storage Drive (7200 RPM)
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drewfx1
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/05 11:29:43
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Keep in mind that if you're trying to match to video, which might need to match to a frame that's ~1/30th of a second, even 3 decimal places for tempo wouldn't be enough to match things up perfectly for a longer cue. So how many decimal places is really enough?
That's why it makes more sense to just use fit to time.
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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brundlefly
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Re:BPM Tempo - why does Sonar not have 3 decimal places?!!
2011/08/05 12:00:00
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The problem is that the original song in Logic was 100.264 BPM but I can only set Sonar to 100.26 so there is a time slip that happens towards the end of the track. Unless this piece is exceptionally long, I think you've got something else going on. That .004BPM difference would amount to a 10ms error after 4 minutes, and is smaller than the typical difference between sample clocks on different DAWs. I think that's why SONAR doesn't bother with 3-digit tempos. At worst two identical wave files with a 10ms difference in run times over 4 minutes would sound a little phasy against each other. Standing alone or running against a 4-minute video, you'd never notice a difference.
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