How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR

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Victoria
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2011/08/05 09:35:29 (permalink)

How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR

 
 Hello everyone
 
Im using Sonar Studio I have recorded between -15-18Db depending on how loud I get when I sing. I am now ready to edit mix and master Im not a professional but I have learned how to use Sonar tools, but how come it doesnt sound like the songs on the radio. Those songs sound full and as if everything has been pulled together and some of my songs sound so far away and thin even when I use a decent amount of instruments. Im sorry if you dont really understand what I am saying, but anyway I would like to know how do you get that radio sound?? Do I need to switch to different software?
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    Beagle
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/05 12:58:38 (permalink)
    that's a big, big question!  LOL!

    first, recording your vocals at -15dB to -18dB is fine.  what do you use for your instruments?  softsynths?  imported backing tracks?  something else?  all audio tracks and softsynth output tracks should be about the same volume - actually I tend to record a little bit hotter, usually between -12dB and -6dB, but there's nothing wrong with your approach, but all tracks should be about the same level for mixing.

    all tracks should also go to the master bus and not directly to the soundcard.  or if you need an FX bus or Group bus you can send instruments to a subbus like that, but those buses need to be routed to the master bus.  all signals eventually need to go to the master bus and ONLY the master bus should go to the soundcard.

    now, if you are "home mastering" then you need to have your master bus output to NEAR 0dB.  "Home mastering" means you plan to make mp3s yourself or wave files for CD yourself but you do not plan to send it to a "mastering house" for finalizing before sending it to a CD replication house.

    compression and/or limiting should also be done on the master bus for 'home mastering."  this will lower your dynamic range but will increase your overall RMS making the song "sound louder" more like a commercial CD.  depending on the version of SHS you have, there are different tools available for a compressor or limiter to use on the master bus.

    I have more information on how to use a compressor/limiter on my website (in my signature).

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    #2
    Victoria
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/05 14:52:31 (permalink)
    Thank you I am so going to your website!! I simply love your pics!!! Cool pups!! Yes I am doing everything at home. I am using soft synths however I did play the keyboard myself through midi. I have sonar studio 8.5 do you suggest any professional techniques for vocals I only us EQ and compression if necessary I like to save compression for the end but because I recorded at low volumes I need a boost sometimes simple automation works and sometimes its not enough EQ has really brought out my vocals I love the clarity I just want my music to sound full and together instead of sounding like scattered instruments and vocals..
    #3
    Beagle
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/05 16:37:46 (permalink)
    well - those aren't my dogs! lol!  I have 2 dogs and neither of them are beagles!  I'M Beagle!  that's my nickname! 

    I don't remember what plugins came with S8.5 Studio and while I do have S8.5, I have the professional version, so my version came with more tools than yours did.

    look in your FX and see what you have listed and list it here and I'll tell you which ones you can use for what.  you can get to your FX by right clicking in the FX bin and choosing AUDIO FX> and look at the menu listing.  or by opening the PLUGIN MANAGER which, IIRC, is TOOLS>PLUGIN MANAGER.

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    #4
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/05 22:40:31 (permalink)
    The goal is to have the tracks as close to prefect as possible... nice strong levels without distortion and clipping. Nothing in the red.

    Use busses to group "like kind" tracks like all background vocals, or guitars all in a buss.

    Use compression and EQ with in reason. They will raise the levels a bit and make it sound louder.

    Understand that the stuff you hear on the radio is made in multi-million dollar studios, with state of the art gear and the guy setting at the desk knows his business. Knowing the process goes a long way toward the polished sound you seek.

    HOWEVER............

    Might I suggest something to you?   Try Ozone 4  Go to the Ozone website and download the demo. It works 100% functional for 10 days.... many here use it and let me tell you... it makes a huge difference.

    Theoretically.....all the stuff you need to replicate what Ozone does is included in Sonar...... but... I'll take Ozone any day!

    Warning..... before you do the demo download... be sure you have the funds needed to buy it. I guarantee that when the demo shuts off on day 11, you will want it some kinda bad.

    My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

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    #5
    57Gregy
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/05 23:10:25 (permalink)
    I was going to suggest that, too. I downloaded the demo, liked it and it was only $189 at Guitar center at that time. It's back up to regular price $200+. I didn't have the money then, and even less now.
    But someday I will get it.

    Greg 
    I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

    Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
    Everything is better with pie. 

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=609446
    http://www.reverbnation.com/#!/gregfields 
    #6
    Beagle
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/06 07:04:45 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    The goal is to have the tracks as close to prefect as possible... nice strong levels without distortion and clipping. Nothing in the red.

    Use busses to group "like kind" tracks like all background vocals, or guitars all in a buss.

    Use compression and EQ with in reason. They will raise the levels a bit and make it sound louder.

    Understand that the stuff you hear on the radio is made in multi-million dollar studios, with state of the art gear and the guy setting at the desk knows his business. Knowing the process goes a long way toward the polished sound you seek.

    HOWEVER............

    Might I suggest something to you?   Try Ozone 4  Go to the Ozone website and download the demo. It works 100% functional for 10 days.... many here use it and let me tell you... it makes a huge difference.

    Theoretically.....all the stuff you need to replicate what Ozone does is included in Sonar...... but... I'll take Ozone any day!

    Warning..... before you do the demo download... be sure you have the funds needed to buy it. I guarantee that when the demo shuts off on day 11, you will want it some kinda bad.

    I'm really not trying to pick on you Herb, but I strongly disagree when you say "nothing in the red."  that IS a good rule of thumb for recording your tracks, but once they are recorded and INSIDE sonar, they can be "in the red" after you put FX on them or if you need to boost them with the fader and especially the master can be "in the red."  the red part of the meter is not there to make you stop before you get to it, it's there to warn you that you're approaching the 0dB point.
     
    inside sonar individual tracks and buses can be ABOVE 0dB and not be a problem because of the 64bit floating point audio engine.  that allows users to have incredible headroom for mixing and not worry about the 0dB limit while mixing.  the problem is ONLY when you are hitting the converters in your soundcard.  you can't allow greater than 0dB while recording or on the master bus while playing back (and you should ALWAYS send everything thru the master bus to avoid summing at the soundcard for the same reason).
     
    but even with the converters not being able to handle above 0dB, they CAN handle "the red."  The red part of the meters start at -5dB.  there's absolutely nothing wrong with -0.1dB which is "in the red."

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    bill durham
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/06 16:25:47 (permalink)
    Victoria.. my process isn't that dissimilar to Beagles but when I "home master", I like to do it to the completed wave file that I have exported vs putting the mastering effects in the Master Bus effects bin of the project.  I get my mix where I want it, highlight all of the tracks in the mix and export the audio to whatever folder you store things and label it XXXXXXX today's date mix.wav.  Then start a new project using the Mastering template instead of the normal template and import your saved file into the first audio track in the template.  I am making an assumption here that Sonar 8.5 has that template. I use SHS 4 and I assume that versions after had the same thing.. If not, you could create a Mastering Template that has all of the mastering effects you want.  The Mastering Template in SHS 4 has a Parametric EQ, a Compressor/Limiter and the Tape simulation effect all in the Master Bus effects path.  You can adjust all of them to get your track to where you ultimately want it to be sound wise.  I like to use the tape simulation effect at the 15ips, light saturation setting to warm up the track some.  Once you have it where you like it, you export the file again to the folder you want to save it.. you can either rename the file or keep the original file name and overwrite the old file.. your choice.   I hope this has helped.

    BD

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/bdandfriends_music.htm

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/billdurham_music.htm
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    Beagle
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/06 17:19:22 (permalink)
    actually, I do the same thing myself, Bill.  either way is accpetable!

    http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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    #9
    jhughs
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/06 18:10:07 (permalink)
    All, I could be wrong, but I think we're diving in a bit deep here for Victoria.  Even though she's asking for that "radio sound" I get the sense she's still working on getting a decent mix before mastering. 

    Victoria, one fast way to get help is, if you have someplace to post your current version, like SoundClick or something similar, then put your current draft online and then post the link here or in the Songs forum for comments.  There are people here with excellent ears and tons of experience who enjoy helping anyone willing to learn.
    post edited by jhughs - 2011/08/06 18:11:23

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    J Hughs Soundclick
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    bill durham
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/11 12:41:38 (permalink)
    Good point JHughs..


    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/4/bdandfriends_music.htm

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/billdurham_music.htm
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    NovaFire77
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    Re:How to get that radio finish sound in SONAR 2011/08/21 14:26:03 (permalink)
    This set of tutorials are focused on X1 Producer, however, the basic principles are all the same.  I went to school for audio engineering and I learned plenty about mixing, but mastering was a class that I was never able to take.  In short, I was pretty much in the same boat as you are.  Then I found this set of tutorials on Youtube and it opened up a whole new world for me.  Judging by your OP, I recommend you watch everything this guy has posted from beginning to end.  He starts off with very basic instructions for mixing and goes all the way on up to mastering.  Good luck!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGRHjV0Y0W0

    Reid
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