ANSWERED - Help me understand volume envelopes

I have a vocal track with mechanical noise. It's not important but I figured it was an opportunity to practice some seldom used techniques. I went into the track and precisely located the noise. I set the filter to show the volume envelope for the track and tried what I think is called "ducking". Pulled the volume envelope down for the duration of the noise.

The technique worked very well. I listened to the track and the noise was inaudible but I now have a problem. I can't adjust the track volume any more. If I pull the fader up or down in the console view it returns to its original position as soon as I release it. I can no longer mix the track with the rest of the project.

Be gentle, I know I'm doing something stupid but I can't find this behavior mentioned in the reference or Scott's book.

It's just automation. If you create and automation where you make the slider move up or down by using the write button to record your movements, you've created an envelope. You can manually create  automations/envelopes in the clips pane. You have to choose what type of envelope in the (widget? What's this area called?) area to choose the type of envelope.

HTH 

Yup...that's just your automation working.  True ducking, while similar to how your doing it, uses a gate that is set to the threshold of the noise you're trying to get rid of and automatically lowers the gain to compensate and eliminate it.  You can try that as well.  And...just as a bonus...if you want the best gate going, check out FabFilter's new Pro-G.  Killer Diller.

If you have all the relative loudness set as you want it using automation, but want to adjust the WHOLE track up or down in the mix, this is what I do:  open Pro Channel for the track.  Activate the Tube Saturation at the bottom.  Adjust the track "output" knob up or down.  The track will get louder or softer in the mix, but will retain the automation settings.
 
Hope that helps.

ampfixer

I have a vocal track with mechanical noise. It's not important but I figured it was an opportunity to practice some seldom used techniques. I went into the track and precisely located the noise. I set the filter to show the volume envelope for the track and tried what I think is called "ducking". Pulled the volume envelope down for the duration of the noise.

The technique worked very well. I listened to the track and the noise was inaudible but I now have a problem. I can't adjust the track volume any more. If I pull the fader up or down in the console view it returns to its original position as soon as I release it. I can no longer mix the track with the rest of the project.

Be gentle, I know I'm doing something stupid but I can't find this behavior mentioned in the reference or Scott's book.

Hi John,

There's a couple of ways you can accomplish this.

My favorite way is to zoom in on the track and make it as big as you can, hold 'Alt', and highlight the noisy area. What that will do is create split points at the beginning and end of the area you highlighted. Then delete that section that was snipped out. If you clipped some audio by accident it's ok at this point because you can still drag out the edges of your clips.

I do that for several reason, one it creates a lot of smaller clips which are easier to manipulate, and when you are done, you highlight the entire track, right click, and 'Apply Trimming'. That will permanently delete (trim) all the portions you cut out. It makes working with V-vocal easier, and you just reduced your project size by deleted all the unwanted parts of the track.

You could also use the Smart Tool and use the Erase/Mute tool at the far right. I do that too if I only need to silence a couple of spots.

Here's a screenshot of one I'm doing now.

I don't know how V-vocal got on there?

You see all the envelopes ... I only use clip envelopes and I only use the 'Gain' envelope. That way I can still turn the overall volume up and down on the track.

I've never used Offset mode so I can't comment on that. This way works very well for me.

Good luck!

Bub

Update: I don't know if this is the right way to do it or not, I guess there really is no right/wrong way, but I never use volume automation on a track. If I have a need for that, I create a bus and do it there. I always end up regretting using volume automation on a track.

Gain Automation = Has an effect on the input signal going in to an effect.
Volume Automation = Controls the volume of the output after effects.

Hi John,

Every track and bus has a 'W' (Write) automation button. Click it and it will turn red. You can ignore the 'R' (Read) button for what you are doing. When you enable 'W', hit play and whatever control you move, an envelope will be written on that track or bus. If you have Sonitus EQ up and move one of the frequency gain sliders, an envelope will be written, move the volume slider and an envelope will be written.

Another vote for Offset mode, that is why we have it

This allows us to make over all changes to parameters that have been automated.

Tom

14 posts and nobody has suggested using a Clip Gain envelope.

Split the clip either side of the portion you want lowered (as per Bub post #9)

Insert a clip gain envelope and drag it down to eliminate the noise.

Now you've got your "ducking" and more importantly, you still have full control over the track fader.

Thanks to everyone for your time and talent. I've looked into all the comments and it has helped greatly. As usual, the problems were of my own creation. Envelopes are tricky and powerful but you have got me headed in the right direction and it's appreciated very much.