Fruityloops vs Sonar

depends on what you want to do.  I like the piano roll much better on FL but that is about it

Skyodelic and I have argued on this before but each DAW is an instrument or if you like a multi-instrument, I am trying to get this started as a topic for my PHD.

So if each DAW is an instrument, Sonar is a Violin and Fruity Loops is a recorder!!!!!!  And Pro Tools is like a pair of really soiled underwear.

Seriously though, each DAW is an multi-instrument and will do various things really good and somthings really bad.  my opinion is that we need three DAW's to have a full arsenal to produce whatever sort of music we desire.

This is my opinion, Cubase for really intenstive midi sequencing, because of indvidual note expression, this will be really handy if you are going to build a digital orchestra.

Sonar, even though I wont touch X1 YET would be best if you are going to compose and then want to take those compostion out live.  This does not just mean hip-hop and dance, I believe Sonar could easily turn one man into a complete "rock/pop" band and still come across credible to an audience.  In fact I would use Sonar over Alberton as a live performance rig (I can hear the moans now) yes Sonar does not have quite the same tools set as Live, mainly the ability to time stretch things on the fly but I do believe we will see Sonar move that way soon.  Evidence you ask, well the big banner they have been trumpeting about worlds colideing would be a start.

And finally this leaves Studio One, Studio one seams to have the full compliment of tools for recording, I don't know what it's midi functionality is like but it has VST3, which everyone has written off, I like the idea of a plug turning on and off as I don't need it.  I also like the fact that it has Varispeed, which can be used for tape speed effects.  Plus it is suppose to be a more crediable tool for mastering.

Discalimer, I have used Cubase and Sonar, the information abut Studio One is from what I have read!!!!

OK?,now Im confused,Cant you just turn off a plug in the effects bin? or bypass? or the on off switch? yet still have it there and turn it back on via those three ways? Its only been 4 months[X1]so much to learn!! arrrrgh!

FL Studio and Sonar are to very different DAWs. FL Studio comes from a tracker background where Sonar come from a linear sequencing background.
The heritage of each shows an effect on what they are now. Both can do now what the other can do but not as well. Tracker sequencing is far and away easier in FL Studio then in Sonar. Linear sequencing is far and way easier in Sonar then in FL Studio.  

They are two different beasts that have their own uses.  

The dudes talking about the "soft synth" option e.g. turn on turn off[Chregg/Benmmusstech]Yes I know you can do that in X1 so what are they saying? Sorry,I know replies are supposed to be directed to the OPs question,this turn on/off thing just confused.RK

The dudes talking about the "soft synth" option e.g. turn on turn off[Chregg/Benmmusstech]Yes I know you can do that in X1 so what are they saying?

we're talking about vst 3

Rain

BenMMusTech

My opinion is that we need three DAW's to have a full arsenal to produce whatever sort of music we desire.

Yet, they all pile up the features, sometimes w/ very little coherence, and try to be everything to everyone. Talk about paradox... 



I've made the decision to pick one and to just stick w/ it. Pick one that has the features that you need, suits your workflow and stick with it. Learn it from top to bottom. In the end, I feel that this saves me more time than switching apps all the time to access this or that feature.

Honestly, if I can't get the results with that application, I'm to blame, not my tool. Whether it supports VST3 or not, whether they have clip-based effects or not, etc. 

The funny thing is that, the more I meet people who actually make a living at this, the more I realize how much of a geek I am - many if not most of those guys picked a software and just use it for whatever, whether it's Pro Tools, or Cubase or Sonar. It's not even all that important which one they picked - it's just a part of the equation. They don't spend their life agonizing about this or that feature - they just make music. It's like there's a whole world outside of this software thing. lol

Heck, my brother in law is 100 times the producer/engineer I'd want to be - he's still using Pro Tools 5 on an old G4. And he has mixed albums on his old 32 tracks LE rig before that, good enough for me to actually ask who had done that when I first heard one of them over at a friend's place. So much for my limitless track count, linear-phase eq's, clip-based effects and all that good stuff...

You hit the nail on the head rain, with your comment about your brother, his DAW, which is a few generations behind the "latest" is his instrument, why change Violin mid stream esp if it works still.  He knows that instrument, like he knows his brother.  This is the attitude we should all adapting.  I have not moved on from 8.5 because I know my instrument and hence all this fuss of why have you changed it Sonar/Cakewalk/Roland.
 
If we all followed your brothers path, the music world might just be a lot sainer, this is because we stop treating the latest and greatest must have update as important and concentrait on becoming the best with what we had.
 
I have only mentioned Cubase, because as an artist, I don't want to be limited, I want to make rock and pop and funcky electro (if I can, still struggling with this genre) and Sonar 8.5 is perfect for this but if I want to do an Elenor Rigby type number or a pop number with a big string section the possiblites of Cubase are awsome.  On saying that the The Dim Pro has possibilites in this direction here is an example http://soundcloud.com/aaudiomystiks/sonatamaster13maytla it is not perfect, the cello and violin parts but this is because, they're no instuctions with the samples.  So with a bit of research I started to understand that I had to combine different string sample sets Legato/Expressive and piano and piano forte to get a realistic cello and violin sound.  As I say with the above example I have not quite arrived there but next time I should be able to do it.  The funny thing is with the Legato string patches, I finally found out to make this work you have to make the instument monophonic.  I don't remember where I found this information but it's somthing that should be readily accesable.  The thing is though in Cubase, I don't need to know about this stuff about the instrument, it is inbuilt into Cubase's midi editing tools.
 
And yes we were takling about VST 3, yes you can turn effects on and off with the bypass efx in Sonar but Cubase 3 does it automaticly and then turns them back on when we need them.
 
Peace Ben 

Rain


The funny thing is that, the more I meet people who actually make a living at this, the more I realize how much of a geek I am - many if not most of those guys picked a software and just use it for whatever, whether it's Pro Tools, or Cubase or Sonar. It's not even all that important which one they picked - it's just a part of the equation. They don't spend their life agonizing about this or that feature - they just make music. It's like there's a whole world outside of this software thing. lol

This is so true. There are no magic plugins or DAWs, or magic bits of outboard, or magic control surfaces.

There's some stuff that's better than other stuff, but that's getting more marginal all the time. It's pretty hard work finding actually terrible, unusable recording gear these days.

A couple of DJ guys I've been helping with remixes are always asking me about this or that program or plug in or soft synth. I've been saying to them: "You use Ableton; learn how to use the bundled EQ really well. Then learn how to use the bundled compressor really well. Then learn how to use the bundled reverb and delay really well".

mbot


Seems like you hit the nail on the head Rain, that pretty much sums up the true nature of getting thing done, because it is easy to get caught up in wanting more and more when in reality something like Sonar is years beyond anything that the industry had available to them in the seventies and eighties and even the nineties. This and that feature will not necessarily make a better mix, and feeling like one may be missing out on something or that everyone else has got an edge or got it better because they have several DAWs or that and this feature can be a problem for some.
John, how would you define the difference between tracker sequencing and liner a sequencing?

I'm trying to find that information right now and I am having no luck, I have checked my books and asked the oracle, my feeling is, this a tracker sequencer allows recording (so Sonar or Cubase) and a linear sequencer is more like Reason or Fruity Loops, although if this is the case the line is getting blured because I think both have very basic recording functions.
 
Correct me if I am wrong John
 
Peace

i think FL has moved forward in its sound and capabilities. from its first inception. and even though Reason adds some new morphing modulating gizmo every 2 years, it is still only relegated to the same soundset that hasnt changed in over 10 years..stock SonarPE is still a better bang for the buck..

BenMMusTech

In fact I would use Sonar over Alberton as a live performance rig (I can hear the moans now) yes Sonar does not have quite the same tools set as Live, mainly the ability to time stretch things on the fly but I do believe we will see Sonar move that way soon. 

Ableton not Alberton.  You never tried it I guess to say something like this!?!

Sonar is not even close to Ableton in any aspect of Live performance.  In another league.

I agree with you lapieuvre X1 has a long way to go before its close to Ableton Live, that said you could play a live set with X1 its just a little more work and you're missing a few things that make Live perfect.

i love FL and use it strictly for making beats. (i also use FL Mobile on my 4th gen. ipod) FL is the most stable music program i've ever owned. I cant pay this program to crash and all of my vsti's play nice with it. I wanted to do everything in X1 but because of the problems X1 have running certain vsti's and all the random weirdness, i can only track vocals or work strictly with audio in it.  X1 is slowly getting to 8.5 status for me as far as stability. Hopefully X1c will get it there.

I tried FL a few times, but I do not seem to "click" with this application. For me applications are just tools to use in a creative process. And if it does not "click" the process can be hindred. This has nothing to do with the quality of the application, but only with my personal interaction with it. At this moment I use X1, Cubase6 and Project 5 v2 as main applications. All of these give that important "click" for me..

That said, maybe I would give FL another chance. I have a bit time to spend (most people are enjoying their free days at this moment, so it is -thankfully- a quiet and easy time now), so I might put a little more time in it.