getting the sounds of M50 in Sonar X1 producer

Hi.

I'm not familiar with the M50 or Legacy cell but as I understand it the M50 is hardware possibly with a VST version, and the legacy cell software which you can presumably use as a VST.

A couple of things to check. First make sure the M50 is connected to an amp or something so you can hear it's output. It can't playback through Sonar to hear it's audio. You can play it via MIDI though.

Make sure that the M50 is selected as output in your MIDI track. You should also be able to assign an INS file for easy access to sounds.

If it has a VST version for sound access do you mean the VST won't read the M50 to get its data or you can't hear the output? A little more information on how it's connected and set up will be helpful.

I am sure there is a technical reason why the M50 cannot be supported inside of Sonar like the vast majority of hardware synths can, and yet you gleefully blame Cakewalk for them being incompatible..


Does this mean Cakewalk should divert attention from fixing bugs and making improvements that will please 100% of Sonar users?.. no.

There are hundreds of incompatible synth/soft-synth/daw/vst combinations... and while you could hope that  every DAW should work with every synth.. they just dont..

If its critical to you to use the VST editor of the M50, i suggest you go buy Cubase and be happy.

You may not understand as you've made a "note to Cakewalk", that the forum is a peer to peer forum that cakewalk provide for us to help solve SONAR problems based on our collective experiences and knowledge.

Cakewalk don't monitor the forums specifically even though individual staff memebers do join in and make comments from time to time. Perhaps if you contacted Cakewalk directly they may be able to offer you some help or an answer that may be more useful than an angry post by a dissatisfied fellow user.

On page one of the forum there is a thread with details how various departments of Cakewalk can be contacted.

user Adrian4U seems to be a knowledgeable user of the M50 but pretty negative about how SONAR does or doesn't support it etc. 

to pgrimbert:
I think you should really get your info from Cakewalk so you are dealing with facts. I would ask questions like: 
Is it a case of user error or is it true that SONAR doesn't support this product? 
Is support likely in the future?
Is there a work around?
If it is user error is there a tutorial, video clip or other info on correct operation available? One of those go to the source kind of questions.
What do the Korg forums say about this product and SONAR? Maybe there's a more reasoned answer than adrian4U's angry response.

Thanks Mudgel. I just posted a message to Cakewalk some minutes ago. Waiting to the answer...

Nice regards

Hi Mudgel - I'm not angry just this is curious - that's all.
I will try to put the Korg editor as a plugin into Audio or MIDI track in weekend, maybe it will help.

The main way of work these editors is simple:
- you put it as a softsynth
- it searches automatically for MIDI (USB) input and output of the instrument
- it works.

Now weird thing:
- I don't know why, but if you will set up MIDI INPUT from synthesizer as "active", plugin can't find it.
- If you won't "activate" MIDI IN from synthesizer - plugin works well, but you can't use synth's keyboard to record MIDI tracks.
- and  there are no issues with active MIDI OUT from Sonar to instrument.........
 
Offcourse, you can search and dowload INS file, but you loose most of fun and functionality and realtime control.

I gave CUBASE as example - there are no problems with CUbase - so I'm wondering where is the bug - in plugin itself or Sonar?
Don't tell me to change DAW to Cubase, because Cubase interface, settings and places where some functions are, are ILLOGICAL. Nightmare of programists.
As you can see, I have Korg MicroX with its plugin/editor, in few days I'll get M50 back from service,but as far as I was trying - there's no way to make Sonar fall in love with Korg.
 
And - it should work like a chain - Sonar-plugin-instrument / instrument-plugin-Sonar.
But it doesn't.

Weird, isn't it?

And - another fault is (in total) - Sonar doesn't draw waveforms for incoming audio. I use several synths and other hardware with Sonar and I don't have a need t rcord every single track - just I use Sonar as a mixer. But without waveform drawing it's not so easy and funny to work with audio.

adrian4u


Hello - well - maybe few words from KORG user:

1. SONAR has completly NO SUPPORT for Korg plugins/editors - for synths: MicroX, M50, M3 etc.
2. it's impossible to use editor AND keyboard of your synth at the same time
3. it's because Sonar as the only one can't recognise plugin-editor as a "insert"
4. Cubase can and there's no problem with config - in a facyt you don't have to config anything - it just works
5. If you want to use Korg plugin/editor for your synth, go to Preferences-Midi and DISABLE MIDI IN from your Korg synthesizer (ITS TOTALLY CRAZY, BUT IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE PLUGIN WORK!!!!)
6. Now ad your plugin into dynth rack, create MIDI and AUDIO tracks, set the input of Audio properly, turn Echo ON, be prepared that SONAR WILL NOT DRAW WAVEFORM OF INCOMING AUDIO (another STUPID misunderstanding!!!!)
7. and now it should work.
8. But - your synth's keyboard is useless.

Another way is to download and define Korg M50 .ins file and to DON'T USE EDITOR AT ALL.

ThANK YOU, sONAR for being user-friendly!!!!  

Sorry, that last comment is nonsense. 
Sonar's global Instrument Definitions facility is perfect for managing your M50 workstation.  I have a Fantom X6 workstation and I have no problems whatsoevcer.  I've tried Reaper, Studio One and others, and believe me Sonar's facilitities for interfacing with external workstations is MILES better.  Forget about using the Editor; download the .ins file for the Korg and get it into the Instrument Defnitions and you'll be fine.
 
John

Adrian,
I apologise for the off-hand suggestion to simply buy Cubase..(i wouldnt wish that on anyone).. but you should not start ranting about Sonar and its user friendliness until you actually know there is a problem with it.. rather than the user..:)
 
From your replies it seems that you may have some confusion over the process of using a VST editor..
 
There are many compatability issues with VST Editors/synths & DAWS.. it may be possible that yours is one (I have Juno G, Fantom G and Yamaha S70XS..the latter only works in Cubase and pretty much nothing else, so i use S70xs editor in standalone mode)
 
Read the above advice by FBB..
 
then Proceed in simple steps...
 
1. Verify your VST editor works
a) to use the VST editor simply.. go insert>soft-synth>[editor name]  and accept all defaults. Do NOT place it as an insert into an audio track nor a midi track.
b) the editor should sync to your M50.. play the M50 keyboard and fiddle with the VST controls to change the sounds.. does it work y/n? if so then your editor is fine.
 
2. Record audio from the M50 (independent of the above)
a) Note : you cannot capture the audio from a VST Editor..it does not have any. it simply controls the synth
b) Note : As FBB alludes, you need to have the audio out from the M50 go into your audio interface to record an audio track... You cannot record Audio over a USB connection from the M50
c) Insert an Audio track, ensure your M50 is plugged in and your audio input is set correctly on that track.. and ARM the track.
d) Hit record.. play something, anything.. hit stop..is it captured y/n? Sonar does not descriminate audio input by manufacturer name :)
 
Items 1 & 2 are independent of each other.. and are also independent of midi key/velocity info from Sonar to the M50..so if you can do both, then worry about integrating the M50 into Sonar projects with midi tracks, tempo sync etc.
 
3. Capturing midi from the M50
a) insert a midi track and ensure the M50 is selected as the midi input.
b) Do not select a midi output for this track and turn local echo off in sonar.
c) Ensure midi out is enabled in the M50 and bang some keys.. is the MIDI input bar moving on the track y/n?
 
4. Integrating the M50
What i typically do with the fantom G (which has USB audio but i use a mixer>KA6) is to leave keyboard local control ON, turn Sonar local echo off, record midi tracks having FG as MIDI source and MIDI destination and do all editing and prep in MIDI.. essentially i have a MIDI master. When everything sounds about right i insert a new audio track, arm it, hit play and record the FG audio... sometimes 1 track per midi channel, sometimes the whole shebang.
 
I recommend finding or creating an .ins file for the M50.. very handy to setup patches by name.
 
Finally, the VST editor may be handy when the synth is across the room, or when there is a minimal UI on the synth, but is certainly not a necessity for workflow... I tend not to use it as the FG has a great UI and is right next to me.
 
 
adrian4u


Hi Mudgel - I'm not angry just this is curious - that's all.
I will try to put the Korg editor as a plugin into Audio or MIDI track in weekend, maybe it will help.

The main way of work these editors is simple:
- you put it as a softsynth
- it searches automatically for MIDI (USB) input and output of the instrument
- it works.

Now weird thing:
- I don't know why, but if you will set up MIDI INPUT from synthesizer as "active", plugin can't find it.
- If you won't "activate" MIDI IN from synthesizer - plugin works well, but you can't use synth's keyboard to record MIDI tracks.
- and  there are no issues with active MIDI OUT from Sonar to instrument.........
 
Offcourse, you can search and dowload INS file, but you loose most of fun and functionality and realtime control.

I gave CUBASE as example - there are no problems with CUbase - so I'm wondering where is the bug - in plugin itself or Sonar?
Don't tell me to change DAW to Cubase, because Cubase interface, settings and places where some functions are, are ILLOGICAL. Nightmare of programists.
As you can see, I have Korg MicroX with its plugin/editor, in few days I'll get M50 back from service,but as far as I was trying - there's no way to make Sonar fall in love with Korg.
 
And - it should work like a chain - Sonar-plugin-instrument / instrument-plugin-Sonar.
But it doesn't.

Weird, isn't it?

And - another fault is (in total) - Sonar doesn't draw waveforms for incoming audio. I use several synths and other hardware with Sonar and I don't have a need t rcord every single track - just I use Sonar as a mixer. But without waveform drawing it's not so easy and funny to work with audio.

Skyline_UK


Can somebody enlighten me please.

Why is a 'VST Editor' or any sort of plugin for that matter needed to connect up an external hardware workstation like the Korg M50?  Maybe I've been doing it wrong all these years with my Roland XP50 and then my Fantom X6 workstations.  I simply have midi in and out connected between my X6 and Sonar, and audio outs L and R from the X6 to my audio interface and so to Sonar.  With Intrument Definitions in place I can pass midi in whichever direction I want, choose banks and patches by name from within Sonar, and record audio either directly from the X6 or  by playing a midi track to the Fantom recording its sounds onto a separate audio track back into Sonar.

Either I'm missing something or a number of the above posts exhibit unnecessary confusion and 'workarounds' for a problem I don't see as existing!

John  

In no particular order............

1. I cannot access my performance patches via regular bank/patch selection methods, therefore can't write an INS file for them. So it's either don't use the performance patches, or call them up from the synth itself, or use the editor. I find the editor easier.
2. The display window on my Sonic is titchy therefore programming it is far easier with the editor.
3. Related to the above is how much easier it is changing settings etc with a windows driven app rather than scrolling through loads of menus and levels on the afore mentioned titchy screen
4. It increases my ability to save information in that I'm not just limited to the memory of the Sonic.
5. Auditioning patches is quicker.

I think if I was just using patches as they are I wouldn't bother with the editor at all but I like to use the multi-part performance patches and the editing of existing patches to fit songs better is definitely easier. JMHO of course.

and
c) Editor is more clear and user-friendly than even 320x240 graphicqal display.
d) it allows you to easily take control over your hardware and sound parameters in realtime
e) as an editor or librarian - it' very handy

you can look at it just by downloading and installing any of Korg editors (for microX, X50, M50, M3) - just take a ride, look and you'll see.

subjective statements will always get subjective responses... skylineUK doesnt agree with c) , i dont with d)  (in fact if i did i would get rid of all my synths)
 
 but is it working now?.. hate to write a page of help for it to not be read and attempted.
 
adrian4u


and
c) Editor is more clear and user-friendly than even 320x240 graphicqal display.
d) it allows you to easily take control over your hardware and sound parameters in realtime
e) as an editor or librarian - it' very handy

you can look at it just by downloading and installing any of Korg editors (for microX, X50, M50, M3) - just take a ride, look and you'll see.