EQ and Mastering

I like the song. You have a bit of Tull influence I think.

I'm not sure how to express myself exactly but to me the mix, IMO, needs for the different instruments to be EQed a little more differently from each other to give more contrast between the players, even though they are all you. I think the bass could be a little more defined and the guitar a rhythm guitar a little more edgy and harsh, maybe more mids and highs on the rhythm guitar. In the beginning there is a sort of univibe thing going on with thewhole mix, maybe a phase probem? I don't know but it sounds like it is going to come apart. The intro is great!
I think after a second listen to the first 30 seconds or so that the guitar and the organ are to similar in their EQ. I think making the electric guitar a ittle more like a Grand Funk or Wishbone Ash.. (or Locomotive Breath) sort of tone would help to define the parts and would fit the songwell. I like a chimy ringing acoustic guitar like some of the Eagles stuff. Then the tone of your voice and the organ would sit in their own space and be framed by these (other players... I still know they are you). I make a concious effort to try to emulate someone different when playing different parts, I too am a one man band because in a real band the different people are going to have different styles, influences, and the tension all coming together makes something magic... so I make an effort to not be me on every track... if that makes any sense.
This may sound stupid to you but try to imagine you have multiple personalities and you are all the members of a band that has put out several albums. When playing the guitar try to be a guitarist who is a little bit unhappy and really wants to take the band in a different direction butm you (The real you... the singer/songwriter) has a clear vision of where the band is going. Play that tension of doin your guitar work but leaning a bit toward the more 3 piece band rock gig you have been thinking about. I'd leave the keys and vocals status quo execept I would think about adding a piano and use a B3. Chimy acoustic. Someone else, who is you too... is the producer who like George Martin was the 5th Beatle.

Wel, FWIW... it is my opinion and I think your work is worth taking the time to try and explain what I think. I realize that it may sound crazy but it is the way I think and the only way I know how to properly express myself and what I am trying to get across.

I think you are a talented artist and I hear a lot of potential on your track but that there is not enough definition between the instruments, IMO. Mastering can bring them all together but you, IMO, need that tension between the different virtual players. It sounds like they are all you.... that is not bad, but I think it could be better if you conciously tried to be an actor as you play the different parts. Maybe one of you has an ego problem, one has a drug problem. You get the idea.
I've been thinking about making sure I have some bleed from other tracks into each track, as if a band is in a studio all mic'd up and playing together. How do you set your panning laws? From Sonar X1 POWER, page 33: Sonar's default is 0bd center, sin/cos taper, constant power. Scott recommends considering -3db center, sin/cos taper, constant panning law. But be careful to not change it somewhere in the mixing process. It is used in analog mixing boards, which makes it somewhat of a standard. Hleps guard against clipping and I assume helps conserve headroom for mastering... but I am not sure on that.

Well, I've probably written a bunch of nonsense but, you asked, laff.

Julien 

But... I like your style and I like your song. Do

jbow


I like the song. You have a bit of Tull influence I think.

I'm not sure how to express myself exactly but to me the mix, IMO, needs for the different instruments to be EQed a little more differently from each other to give more contrast between the players, even though they are all you. I think the bass could be a little more defined and the guitar a rhythm guitar a little more edgy and harsh, maybe more mids and highs on the rhythm guitar. In the beginning there is a sort of univibe thing going on with thewhole mix, maybe a phase probem? I don't know but it sounds like it is going to come apart. The intro is great!
I think after a second listen to the first 30 seconds or so that the guitar and the organ are to similar in their EQ. I think making the electric guitar a ittle more like a Grand Funk or Wishbone Ash.. (or Locomotive Breath) sort of tone would help to define the parts and would fit the songwell. I like a chimy ringing acoustic guitar like some of the Eagles stuff. Then the tone of your voice and the organ would sit in their own space and be framed by these (other players... I still know they are you). I make a concious effort to try to emulate someone different when playing different parts, I too am a one man band because in a real band the different people are going to have different styles, influences, and the tension all coming together makes something magic... so I make an effort to not be me on every track... if that makes any sense.
This may sound stupid to you but try to imagine you have multiple personalities and you are all the members of a band that has put out several albums. When playing the guitar try to be a guitarist who is a little bit unhappy and really wants to take the band in a different direction butm you (The real you... the singer/songwriter) has a clear vision of where the band is going. Play that tension of doin your guitar work but leaning a bit toward the more 3 piece band rock gig you have been thinking about. I'd leave the keys and vocals status quo execept I would think about adding a piano and use a B3. Chimy acoustic. Someone else, who is you too... is the producer who like George Martin was the 5th Beatle.

Wel, FWIW... it is my opinion and I think your work is worth taking the time to try and explain what I think. I realize that it may sound crazy but it is the way I think and the only way I know how to properly express myself and what I am trying to get across.

I think you are a talented artist and I hear a lot of potential on your track but that there is not enough definition between the instruments, IMO. Mastering can bring them all together but you, IMO, need that tension between the different virtual players. It sounds like they are all you.... that is not bad, but I think it could be better if you conciously tried to be an actor as you play the different parts. Maybe one of you has an ego problem, one has a drug problem. You get the idea.
I've been thinking about making sure I have some bleed from other tracks into each track, as if a band is in a studio all mic'd up and playing together. How do you set your panning laws? From Sonar X1 POWER, page 33: Sonar's default is 0bd center, sin/cos taper, constant power. Scott recommends considering -3db center, sin/cos taper, constant panning law. But be careful to not change it somewhere in the mixing process. It is used in analog mixing boards, which makes it somewhat of a standard. Hleps guard against clipping and I assume helps conserve headroom for mastering... but I am not sure on that.

Well, I've probably written a bunch of nonsense but, you asked, laff.

Julien 

But... I like your style and I like your song. Do

Julien



Thank you so much for your detailed comments and encouragement, I really appreciate it. Your first line really spooked me - I have been a lifelong Jethro Tull fan, and now I have been found out! I don't make a conscious effort to impersonate Ian Anderson, far from it, but I have to admit you are the second person to say that you hear that in this track.  I'm not sure if you meant just the voice or the whole feel of the track, but let's face it, there aren't too many Tull tracks that stick to 4/4 all the way through. 


The thing about adopting different personalities is interesting and I do understand what you are getting at. I interpret this as a need to get a bit of tension and dynamics in there. In the outro, I did the opposite of what you suggest, in that I tried to make the lead guitar and keyboard solos run seamlessly into each other. You make a valid point, and highlight one of the dangers of doing everything yourself. 


Guitar sound - I'll have a go at upping the edginess of  the rhythm guitar - any suggestions for a GR4 setting would be great. I've never even heard of panning laws, so will have to look into that.    


Thanks again, Bill


Bapu - comments appreciated. I did have a high pass filter on the bass, but it was closer to 40Hz. I'll keep playing with the mix, cheers.

There is no way to keep our influences from coming through... and that is a good thing I think. Like King Solomon said: There is nothing new under the sun. I like Tull a lot too.
 
I don't know enough about GR4 to offer any advice. It is all just opinion anyway and everyone has one. If you like it is what really matters. I didn't go listen again before responding again but I think I meant the whole feel incuding the voice... (I should be a politicain huh?).
 
Good job though I can tell a lot of work went into it.
 
Julien

Well, know that my critique comes simply from ears and taste of  listener. I am neither a mix master nor a master master... laff... and I should mention that you really have my respect.

Julien

jsaras


You don't have a mastering problem. Your mix levels need to be reworked. The bass and drums should be up and the rhythm guitar should come down. In fact, if you reversed the levels of the drums/bass and the rhythm guitar I think it would be nearly perfect. If I had to guess, your room and monitors aren't giving an accurate picture of the lowest octaves. J

I'm glad you don't think it is a mastering problem. Just for fun, here is take 2 with the rhythm guitar down and the drums and bass up a notch. You may well be right about the room - I am still saving up for bass traps. I have made improvements to the acoustics, and as I said in the original post, these have helped me a lot. Still work to do. Thanks for your feedback, and if it is not too much to ask, what do you make of this version?


http://kiwi6.com/file/dr2q21zuq3

That sounds great Bill!!! Much better to my ears... and to me the Tull influences comes through more in the overall feel than the voice. I like it a lot!

Julien

That sounds a LOT better than the previous mix. As bapu said, the vocal could come up a tiny bit. There may be some issues with the attack/release settings on the master bus (or maybe just the bass track?). It's hard to tell with MP3s. What are you using for compression and how do you have it set? Assuming that you are using compression on the master, I think that a slower attack and faster release would sound better than the current settings.

Love, the song, it just lacks punch, and I think that is what the others are saying.  I don't know if it is an EQ issue, when I EQ, these days for the real instruments, I look for the harmonics of the instrument, so rather than boost the fundamental I will boost the 3rd harmonic or the 6th.  Also remember each instrument with it's harmonics all ocupuy a place in frequency spectrum, so when you mix think of that.  It's like painting!!!

Also on the drum loop, rather than compress it, try the tape sat, this will warm the loop and give the bottom end punch.

Finally don't make your music downloadable for free, please, I implore you.  You should never give away your ideas for free, even if they are 0&1's.  You have given your time and skill into making this song, until we live in a utopia with egalitarian ideals, just don't.  We live in a greedy capitalist society and it is hard enough to get people to buy music with out people giving it away. 

Sorry about the rant but we as artists and the song you put up is worthy of my 99 cents (average per track from a download sevice), need to get this out no pay, no play.  It's even dangerous with all these streaming services, such as SoundCloud. 

Peace Ben

Well, the second mix is better than the first, but to me it is still off. I guess you are going to have to listen to it, and I would use both speakers and headphones. Voice is too loud to me, bass guitar is still too soft, and perhaps the organ in some places with the guitars not quite right either. But then that is me, and I know that mixing can be a chore sometimes. (Maybe I just use too much low end, but still it sounds quite a bit like a radio playing a lot of time, not a recording, but low bass as much as on some on you tube videos (or recordings), not what I want either to hear.)





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different versions of the same song, some a little better than others.
Besides, some new equipment also.
(I am getting messages now from my connection, I guess it is time to go, even if this will post)
It must be the fault of the human - HAL 9000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKKPtfBffE8

jsaras


I just took a look at the Master Mix preset on the VC64 and it's really not suited for most mastering situations. It's a parallel compression setup in which two compressors are set up to be extreme opposites. That kind of thing can be very effective on sources that have an extreme dynamic range...and if you know how to adjust all that. I don't have the time for a detailed discussion on setting compressors, but for me it's a tool to enhance the rhythm (i.e., the attack and release times are dependent on the tempo of the song), provide mix "glue" and sonic "color". This is a simple preset using the Sonitus compressor that shouldn't do any damage and will certainly be more punchy than what you're using currently: http://www.audiorecording...nitusVintageMaster.PNG Keep the gain reduction between 2-4 dB (maybe an occasional 6dB) and be sure to set the output gain so that it doesn't clip.

Thanks for this and indeed all who have replied. I have found sharing this song, and playing with the mixes very educational. In particular, I think I have often been guilty in my songs of underplaying the importance, and prominence in the mix, of drums. This is may be because I put 95% of my effort into playing the other instruments and singing, and the drum part, whether software or loops, is almost an after thought in the tracking process. Yet my rock orientated material will benefit enormously from a great drum sound. 


I will share one or two other projects with you over the months ahead, and will make every effort to contribute my FWIW comments on other people's songs. I am putting together an entire album of my own material, and to answer Ben's point, no it won't be for free!