3-way Speakers

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Peter Rabbit
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2011/08/23 14:42:50 (permalink)

3-way Speakers

 
Forgive me for posting yet another thread but this subject is far too complex to continue on one thread. Each thread deals with a separate question of the same topic.
 
Let's say you buy a 3-way speaker cabinet that has a rating of 150 watts @ 8 ohms and there's an 8", 3", and 1" speaker in the cabinet.
 
Does this mean that the individual impedence rating for each one of the installed speaker cones in the cabinet is actually higher than 8 ohms so that *combined total of the 3 speakers in the cabinet is 8 ohms?
 
 
*By combined total I mean by using this formula...
1/R(total) = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + 1/R3 + ...for as many resistors you have.
 
Pete
post edited by Peter Rabbit - 2011/08/23 17:47:32

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/23 17:20:18 (permalink)
    I'm no expert on speaker cabinet wiring but that depends on how they are wired. In Parallel/Series the impedance of speakers is the same as the individual speakers (that should all have the same impedance)

    I have no idea what effect crossovers have on that though. I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than me will be along to let you (& me) know.
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    Peter Rabbit
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/23 19:42:34 (permalink)
     
    Thanks for the response. I don't really understand all the different types of wiring techniques yet, nor do I understand crossovers. I have not yet begun to research those things.
     
    In addition to just being curious...The reason I'm asking my above question is because I have an amp that has 6 available outputs at 130 watts each @ 8 ohms. (Actually only 4 outputs plus a sub-woofer in the flat EQ stereo mode.)
     
    Instead of using the original speakers that came with the amp I'm thinking that I could purchase some older, used home stereo speaker cabinets with a maximum wattage of 120 - 150 and an impedence rating of 8 ohms. I could then connect these to the amp thereby producing a sound that would be better suited for the purpose for which I would be using them. I want to install them into the body of an electic piano in an attempt to give it a more realistic sound. I think this would help fill out the mid-high and high frequency ranges better. I can pick up a couple pair of floor speakers fairly cheap and install them into the piano.
     
    If I am on the right track with my thinking then I believe there would be no danger in doing this. Am I correct?
    post edited by Peter Rabbit - 2011/08/23 19:53:36

    "Creating a bad song takes just as much time and energy as creating a good one. The problem is that you don't know it's a bad song until someone tells you, and by then it's too late."
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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/23 20:54:41 (permalink)
    In a 3 way speaker system the individual impedance of the speakers does NOT matter..... because, if it's a passive system (no built in amplifiers) the speakers are connected to a crossover network that appears to the amplifier as ONE 8 ohm load (nominal usually at 1KH)

    If it's amplified.... that is not a problem since the speakers are internally connected to the amps.

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    Peter Rabbit
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/23 22:14:15 (permalink)
     
    OK, thanks Herb. That sounds good to me and I think that's what I'll do since craigslist is full of folks trying to sell their 1980's and 90's stereo systems for really cheap because there's just no demand for them anymore. These days everyone wants smaller systems in their homes.

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/24 02:07:02 (permalink)
    Peter Rabbit


     
    OK, thanks Herb. That sounds good to me and I think that's what I'll do since craigslist is full of folks trying to sell their 1980's and 90's stereo systems for really cheap because there's just no demand for them anymore. These days everyone wants smaller systems in their homes.


    I wouldn't be so sure of getting good quality old stuff at cheap prices. I have a friend who is a bit of an audiophile and he spends most of his time on ebay etc buying and selling old gear. The prices some of that stuff fetches  is absolutely shocking. but then again he also gets the odd real bargain every now & then so don't let me put you off. That's here in the UK BTW, other countries may vary.
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    Kev999
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/24 07:15:40 (permalink)
    As I pointed out in your earlier thread, impedance is not a constant, but varies across the frequency spectrum.

    Here is an example.  The impedance in this case is quoted my the manufacturer as: "8 Ohms (4.2 Ohms min)".

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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/24 07:46:52 (permalink)
    Kev's right but for most of us non-engineer types, if you make sure the load and source match you're OK. 


    Impedance is a reactive sort of resistance. Meaning it's the resistance created by a coil or a capacitor to the flow of current through it and that resistance to current flow varies according to frequency.  As such, the actual impedance is related to the frequency of the current.  

    Some algebra and trig are really helpful when you decide to dig into the math behind impedance. 

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/24 10:32:45 (permalink)
    Guitarhacker


    Kev's right but for most of us non-engineer types, if you make sure the load and source match you're OK. 

    Thank the Lord for that my Marshall head only has 16 ohm & 8 ohm jacks. No 'variable' ohm jacks anywhere.

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    tlw
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/25 17:42:19 (permalink)
    Thank the Lord for that my Marshall head only has 16 ohm & 8 ohm jacks. No 'variable' ohm jacks anywhere.

     
    As do my Oranges. Only being Orange, the pair of inputs labelled "8ohms" means "connect two 16ohm cabinets here, one to each socket" not the obvious "connect one or two 8ohm cabinets here".
     
    Nowadays Orange point this out. Once upon a time they just let you find out by word of mouth if you were lucky - or the hard way if you weren't.

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    SvenArne
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/26 05:07:14 (permalink)
    tlw

     
    As do my Oranges. Only being Orange, the pair of inputs labelled "8ohms" means "connect two 16ohm cabinets here, one to each socket" not the obvious "connect one or two 8ohm cabinets here".
     
    Nowadays Orange point this out. Once upon a time they just let you find out by word of mouth if you were lucky - or the hard way if you weren't.


    I so wish that Apple would start making guitar amps. And if they did, it would be so cool if they were comparable to Orange.





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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/26 07:42:57 (permalink)
    FastBikerBoy


    Guitarhacker


    Kev's right but for most of us non-engineer types, if you make sure the load and source match you're OK. 

    Thank the Lord for that my Marshall head only has 16 ohm & 8 ohm jacks. No 'variable' ohm jacks anywhere.

    back in the day we used to use that very fact that there were different impedance outputs on some amps to our advantage..... (on a tube head) you could plug in a mismatched load cab and get a bit more volume or a slightly different tone. This was made possible by the outputs being physically tapped at different points in the output transformer's coil. 

    Since most tube amps for stage use are built like tanks, this will not hurt them. 

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    bobbyscott
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/26 16:53:15 (permalink)
    3-way simply refers to the array drives the speaker to produce sound. It is generally considered the best driver there is more dedicated, but the quality of the speaker's manufacturing and design will also be a decisive factor in the speaker's performance.
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    tlw
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/26 21:21:04 (permalink)
    back in the day we used to use that very fact that there were different impedance outputs on some amps to our advantage

     
    One old trick was to use the different outputs to reduce the volume on simple non-master volume amps like the 100w Marshall Super Lead.
     
    As I recall, you removed one EL34 from each "side" of the power amp's push-pull setup, in effect making the 100watter into a more civilised 50 watter. Then, to handle the change in impedance needed because there's only half the expected number of power amp valves, connect a 16ohm cabinet to the 8ohm output (or was it the other way round? Can't remember without looking it up).
     
    The benefit being that you could push the amp into really nice power stage overdrive without blowing the walls down in clubs/pubs. Not that a plexi running at 50watts is exactly quiet either.
     
    Crank that kind of amp live nowadays, and a live-sound engineer would be moaning you're "too loud" by the time the volume reached"5"...

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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/29 17:37:41 (permalink)
    Interesting comparison, Sven ....


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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/30 08:02:00 (permalink)
    @ TLW....  yeah, I can remember doing that old "pull the tubes" trick a time or two.  All in a search  for the perfect combination of tone and volume. 

    Eventually,  the amp mfgs got wise, and added a switch, usually round the back side, that did that for you...or I think Carvin actually had a switch that lowered the Plate voltage  which resulted in a "mushier" sound and saturation at a much lower resulting volume.  I did have that amp but never really liked that sound. On full power it was a freaking monster, but on lower setting, it sounded crappy. 

    It sounded really sweet on the full 100w setting, with the EV speaker in it, but it was just too freaking loud. It was like a boogie on steroids and I eventually sold it to some guy in a metal band. That's when I bought my Boogie Studio 22 with yup...22 watts and have never been happier with an amp. 

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    tlw
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    Re:3-way Speakers 2011/08/30 20:32:14 (permalink)
    The very loud "minimum" volume (and it's age) is why I stopped using my 50watt plexi and the big Orange Overdrive years ago. These days if I want that sound it's a Tiny Terror set to 15 watts and 1x12" with a mic in front of it as required.
     
    Powerful enough to handle drummers and small gigs on its own, and not so loud that it can't be cranked when mic'd into a PA.
     
    Still too loud for sensible home use though :-/
     
    post edited by tlw - 2011/08/30 20:39:38

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