Five Infinities Dancing

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Ian Ferrin
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2011/08/24 06:13:11 (permalink)

Five Infinities Dancing

 
Five Infinities Dancing
 
By myself and Blake Simpson. 
 
Thanks very much guys... I made quite a few small tweeks based on your suggestions.  The piano's still probably too loud for some folks, but it's quieter, at least in V2. 
 
Blake and I are both OK with this (although Blake doesn't like the stereo panning on the 2nd guitar).  This is probably the finished version. 
 
Re. the drums... they're from stereo loops and I don't have control over the individual drums.
 
Thanks guys!
 
Ian
 
post edited by Ian Ferrin - 2011/08/25 14:19:02

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    morenoise
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/24 06:35:13 (permalink)
    Hi Ian, I like the tune.  There isn't such a thing as to much guitar . The first guitar solo is a bit low in volume and for my taste a little bit to distorted and compressed at that point in the tune. The solo at the end is perfect to my ears anyway. Piano sounds great and so is the playing. Hammond is nice too. I personally would lose the drums at the beginning and start them at about 30 seconds. As it is now I think that bass drum is a bit much at the start of the tune. Also the reverb on the drums makes them sound a bit "splatty", if that makes any sense. Good job.


    Rik
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    Scottytunes
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/24 07:15:40 (permalink)
    Sounds great on my lappy speaks!

    String Jammer
    #3
    Ian Ferrin
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/24 07:43:25 (permalink)
    Rik - Thanks.  The guitar is played thru an amp and is actually softened up a bit.  Blake probably thinks it still needs more reverb... we'll see.  I'll look at the drum reverb.  I'll also take a listen w/o the beginning drums.  Thanks.

    Scott - Thanks, that's actually VERY good news!

    Peace,

    Ian

    "Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me

    Songs - (at soundclick)
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    #4
    malcolmb
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/24 09:51:30 (permalink)
    Hi Ian - I love the piece but there is something very odd about how it comes out of my (admittedly very average quality) speakers. The solo guitar parts are deeply submerged behind the very dominant piano. The piano is perfectly bright and 'sparky' but the guitar is 'drab' (not a good word, but the best I can think of!)and towards the end is almost inaudible. It is almost as if all the instruments are lined up behind the piano. I am sure this is due to my soundcard and speakers, but I wonder if it might be worth looking at the panning? Best Regards Malcolm

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    Heckxx
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/24 11:00:50 (permalink)
    I feel the piano is too loud, the drums consequently too soft. Occasionally I hear a piano chord that is off timed. Definitely a cool song though, arrangement is relatively simple but works very well -Jeff
    #6
    jamesyoyo
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/24 13:05:04 (permalink)
    Great feel, Ian. I would think about not only lowering the piano during the solos, but do a slight eq cut with a nice fat Q around 1.2k as well, which should open the space up for the lead a bit more. Also would move the organ to a side a little bit.

    Overall, the piano sound itself is not helping you. It works great when played by itself, but once any accompaniment comes in, these terrific piano vsts become an unweildy mess to mix. I find many smaller MB-sized patches seem to fit in better. I have been using IK's SampleTank quite a bit in my stuff the past year, and shying away from the big dogs like Ivory and TruPianos.
    #7
    Chappel
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/24 15:29:30 (permalink)
    Nice tune. Excellent keyboard playing, though the piano should be more subdued when other instruments have the focus, especially the guitars. They were buried by the piano. I agree with jamesyoyo that those huge piano sounds sound great but can easily overpower other instruments. I would mix the parts with the guitar solos without the piano and then mix the piano in until supported the guitars without pushing them out of the way. Maybe even use a different piano when the guitars step out. I didn't care for either of the guitar tones. The first seemed like it was inhabiting a very narrow frequency range. Too much high mids maybe? The second seemed to lack low mids. Bright with a fat bottom but nothing in between. That's what I'm hearing on my cheap speakers, anyway. I like the song and the playing... don't get me wrong, but it seemed like a lot of different parts played in different rooms mixed together. I'm sure with a few tweaks this song could sound incredible.
    #8
    Ian Ferrin
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/25 00:20:42 (permalink)
    Thanks guys,

    Malcomb, Heckxx, James and Chappel - Seems like you're all pretty much talking about the piano.  It's NI's New York Grand.  One of the reasons the piano is loud is that, except for V2, it has the melody.  To my ears the melody (in the piano) is already quite buried in the 2nd half of V3.  I AM going to bring the piano down a bit in V2.   I agree that the piano crowds the guitars elsewhere, but the guitars aren't supposed to be on top, except in V2.

    Chappel - We don't have control over the basic guitar tone unless Blake replays the part.  Re that 2nd part, I've already got a 20db shelving cut above about 8K!, but I don't disagree w/ you.  I'm also going to look at the 1st guitar's spectrum and I'll probably make adjustments based on that.  I actually like the tone of the 1st guitar though.

    Thanks very much guys.  I AM going to adjust the piano a bit, but probably not as much as you're suggesting.

    Peace,

    Ian

    "Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me

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    #9
    thepogue
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/25 08:05:42 (permalink)
    enjoyed the tune...and nuff been said bout the piano volume so I'll let that alone...just wish I could hear all that goodness its hiding.. liked the ending!
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    jamesday
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/25 15:19:07 (permalink)
    hey ian. i really liked this. it's a BEAUTIFUL melody. deserving of more than the simple production it's sitting in now. i don't have time now to listen to your other stuff, but i will...expecting to find some other great melodies. again, i really liked it. thanks for sharing.

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    BretB
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/25 19:19:07 (permalink)
    Great feel.  Love the song.  Liking the drums too.  I tend to key in on that.

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    Janet
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/25 20:15:48 (permalink)
    A piano can be too loud? New concept to me. :) Anyway, yeah, nice melody and great playing. The guitars could come up a bit here and there. Great tune...I enjoyed that!
    #13
    mgh
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/26 05:52:14 (permalink)
    i didn't mind the guitar tone in the first solo. as james has said, some judicious automating of eq and volume will get the piano out of the way a little more when the guitar comes in. i dunno if the guitar is in mono in the centre, but you could always clone it a couple of times, pan hard right and left and mix low to get a bit more stereo spread/volume, as well as eqing hard on those versions, or adding a little stereo chorus on a buss...great tune which reminds me of something Billy Joel would do.

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    geeare1
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/27 12:10:15 (permalink)
    Hi Ian,

    Nice tune and feel. I like the drums and basic guitar tones, too.

    Would like to hear it after you've made your adjustments.

    -gr

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    Ian Ferrin
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/27 12:18:36 (permalink)
    Hi Guys, (pogue, james, bret, janet, mgh and gr)
     
    Thanks for all the kind words. I was planning on not replying and just letting this fall away, but I'm just really appreciative of all the generous comments.
     
    Re. the piano and guitar levels and tones. This IS the version with the changes. If Blake insists, I'll drown his guitar in more reverb, but this is the version I like. Pretty much, everyone is wanting more guitar in the bridge and V3, but to me, it's more important to keep the melody on top, or at least not completely drowned.
     
    Anyway, thanks much. I'm really hoping this tune has 'legs'.
     
    Only time will tell.
     
    Peace,
     
    Ian
    post edited by Ian Ferrin - 2011/08/27 12:19:49

    "Everyone is a 'believer' - even if you don't believe, that's a belief" - Me

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    #16
    RLD
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/27 12:36:43 (permalink)
    Hey Ian, 
    It sounds like you're done on this.
    The git solo parts are just too buried. 
    If they are solos then put them up front and give them the spotlight.
    I'm not really sure if the git tone works with this otherwise mellow track, maybe that why you're reluctant to bring it up?
    Definitively sounds out of balance.
    Piano sounds great though.
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    Philip
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/27 14:00:43 (permalink)
    Sounds great, well balanced dynamics (Caleb),

    Everything is vibrant solid, symphonic, orchestrated, with piano dominance ruling the day.  I wouldn't change a thing; JMO, IMHO.

    10/10 for symphonics, harmony, piano dominance, melody
     
    (Edit: This was studied on my Adams speakers without ARC enhancements)
    post edited by Philip - 2011/08/27 14:03:02

    Philip  
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    #18
    RLD
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/27 14:08:00 (permalink)
    Ha ha...well, if piano dominance is the goal, mission accomplished.
    If a balanced mix is the goal, needs some attention.
    #19
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/27 14:44:11 (permalink)
    Glad I listened. very nice melody and groove.

    Comments.... yeah I think the drums should come in a bit further along. Around 25 seconds in.... Hold off on the organ until a bit further along..... adding it so early is like playing all your cards at once... hold back and build...add the organ around 1:42 to bring the energy of the song to a peak, then fade it out at 2:04 like you did..... adding again was nice.....   but don't let it be the last man standing at the end.... fade it to black before the end

    The piano sounds great, but I agree with Jamesyoyo on the piano. A great solo piano is one thing but it becomes a bit harder when it's part of the group as opposed to being just the solo piano. 

    The guitar was a bit low IMHO .... 

    So...

    If I was mixing it with that great sounding piano, and a guitar, I would use envelopes to let one shine, then let the other one shine, and as hard as it is to pull those great sounds down.... I would make the sacrifice so that the song would be the victor. 

    When Janet was just another musician rather then the superstar she has become, and she used to collaborate with little ole me on music... I would do that very thing in our mixes....and I caught a boatload of crap over it too I might add,   from some of her fans..... but I was doing it so that the music was not cluttered with both piano and guitar at the same time.... 


    Now, I use envelopes in everything I do and focus on what needs to be heard and what doesn't. 


    hey... that's just me and how I do it.... Loved the song.  

    post edited by Guitarhacker - 2011/08/27 14:52:01

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    #20
    jbow
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/27 15:49:27 (permalink)
    I think it is really good. I don't think that the piano is too loud but I do think that the guitar needs to come up a bit and I think it would sound better with less distortion but maybe a little more compression, on maybe a P-90 neck pickup but IIRC you said that it is what it is.
     
    I don't care for the left panning of the guitar later in the tune, it does not sound natural at all to me.
     
    I like the piano and I like the tune. It is obviously a piano tune so you want the guitar to support the piano. It seems to me a little more subdued guitar tone and a little more rhythm riffs than lead guitar would better backup the piano. I saw Norah Jones when Adam Levy was her guitarist and he perfectly compimented her piano and her singing. I don't remember what guitar he used but I do remember his old Fender Princeton amp.
     
    But... it is just my opinion and that is all it is. Different people like different things and it could just be my personal preference coming out.
     
    Julien
     
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    Janet
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/27 17:21:31 (permalink)
    Herb, what in the WORLD are you talking about?  You're the one that became a superstar I believe. 

    I'd love to do a whole album with you, Herb, AND redo some of those old ones.  Can't imagine when in the world I'd fit it in though. :(  Maybe some day when I'm old(er) and retired. 

    But yeah, you took some heat over those mixes, didn't you?  :)  I'd forgotten that.  Actually, I took some heat over my own mixes too, about that very thing.  No, was it the violins? Oh well, whatever...I'm still learning! 
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    equality
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    Re:Five Infinities Dancing 2011/08/28 17:05:41 (permalink)
    Nice to hear your great work again Ian. I am a sucker for strong melodies and this is surely accomplished here. Sounds like a folk song in "modern" shape. Love those shifting of minor/major chords. Perhaps the solo guitar part should come up a bit at the cost of the piano level. My only nit. Soulful and honest music, nice!
    #23
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