relpomiraculous
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The Matrix View: reinventing the (Kinetic) wheel?
If Cakewalk simply integrates Kinetic 2 into X1 - making it rewireable and 64 bit compatible, then it will have the killer Matrix-like app all decked out and ready to roll. No need to build a Matrix app from scratch. Kinetic 2, which I just messed with for the first time, is PERFECT as a non linear writing program.________Instead of opening and docking the Matrix view, I would rather open and dock Kinetic 2.---------Capiche Cakewalk?________________What's the status on integrating Kinetic into X1? Drivers? Rewire? Or fully integrated?
post edited by relpomiraculous - 2011/08/31 08:23:52
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Chrisma
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/30 13:08:26
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Dude I've been saying the samething about Kinectic for years. It is the best nonlinear sequencer I have ever used. That coupled with being about to load any vst/vsti you wish makes it one heck of a workstation. Integrating into X1 and the new step sequencer would be incredible. But honestly, I don't want another thing added to X1 until it is rock solid. Right now X1C is a bit too wobbly.
Now upgrading Kinetic to the X1 platform/framework (skylight etc.) . I'd be all over it!
T.
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relpomiraculous
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/30 13:47:29
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Yep. The code has already been written, and Kinetic 2 is so deep it blows my mind. So now that's two of us who at least want to see this thing fully supported in X1 either through rewire and 64 bit or as a full blown integrated part of Sonar. Don't you love the layout of it? So simple. And all my softsynths and effects scanned and loaded into it...with some exceptions of course. I saw some of your posts over on the Kinetic part of the forum - I wish I could go back more than a year and read the posts...there have only been four in the past year...so the forum is dead.
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mumpcake
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/31 00:15:56
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Kinetic as a VSTi with MIDI output would be killer.
I have to agree with Relpo. The X1C matrix view looks very stylish, but it just doesn't flow like Kinetic or P5.
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relpomiraculous
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/31 07:39:59
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Yes a VSTi would be preferable to rewire, which I am having trouble getting to Kinetic 2 to work from in X1 32 bit Win XP. Good idea Mumpy.
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pwal
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/31 12:26:44
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relpomiraculous
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/31 12:43:40
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Indeed, P5 should be integrated as well. P5 is much deeper than Kinetic - but the layout and organization of Kinetic is a linear arranger's dream. Albeit Kinetic was never finished...the happy medium is somewhere between the 2 apps...fully converted into a Matrix view fully integrated into Sonar X^.
post edited by relpomiraculous - 2011/08/31 12:44:51
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ba_midi
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/31 12:44:46
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mumpcake
Kinetic as a VSTi with MIDI output would be killer.
I have to agree with Relpo. The X1C matrix view looks very stylish, but it just doesn't flow like Kinetic or P5.
That would be brilliant -- and would add value since it wouldn't be so "hard wired" into Sonar. They could market the VST to other apps. But yeah - this is a great idea overall (ie, Kinetic as a Matrix) However, if they even added in the P5 Matrix instead of the one they did, it would have been a big improvement with way more features available than the new Matrix has :( But don't hold your breath :(
post edited by ba_midi - 2011/08/31 12:46:11
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AT
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/31 14:51:54
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The guy who did P5 left and the product lanquished. There was a real question whether a company could have two DAWs competing against each other, esp. when SONAR started co-opting the P5 synths.
I wonder if the same guy did Kinetic?
But I agree, a better/simpler step sequencer/looper would be nice. I'll have to look at Kinetic again - I never did use it.
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ba_midi
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/31 14:59:59
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AT
The guy who did P5 left and the product lanquished. There was a real question whether a company could have two DAWs competing against each other, esp. when SONAR started co-opting the P5 synths.
I wonder if the same guy did Kinetic?
But I agree, a better/simpler step sequencer/looper would be nice. I'll have to look at Kinetic again - I never did use it.
Frankly, if they do a SERIOUS and COMPLETE update to The Matrix, that would be great. This incremental stuff gets old quick. So a real full update would be welcomed. Example: add per cell volume and pan (this is so critical to me and many others, and should have been in there already). That's just one example of a needed fix/update. There are a few others but the foundation is there so it'd be nice to see it "finished" as opposed to (cough cough) half-baked ;)
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Chrisma
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/08/31 21:17:30
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relpomiraculous
Indeed, P5 should be integrated as well. P5 is much deeper than Kinetic - but the layout and organization of Kinetic is a linear arranger's dream. Albeit Kinetic was never finished...the happy medium is somewhere between the 2 apps...fully converted into a Matrix view fully integrated into Sonar X^.
Yes a happy medium would be perfect. Honestly, the only thing I missed about Kinetic that wasn't in P5 that was the song arranger. I loved the way P5 handled synths. So give me the song arranger from Kinetic and P5's Matrix and synth handling and I'm good. I still like both apps a lot. They were/are truly what I call synth workstations because there strength was not the in synths and FX that were include (although many of them were excellent...I still use tempo delay on just about everything) but rather what you could quickly with you any synth or fx wanted. They could have just been empty workstations for all I care. I just really enjoyed making music with them (except for the P5 corrupted project ghost that would haunt me once in a while). Can't whole heartedly say the same for SONAR on the midi side of things. As far as just working with audio though me are SONAR have be together for long time (since ProAudio 4 or 5) and I've totally enjoyed every minute of it...and still trying to now.
post edited by Chrisma - 2011/08/31 21:38:55
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candlesayshi
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/09/01 02:25:22
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My Matrix View deal-breaker: Not being able to record directly to cells.
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relpomiraculous
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/09/01 08:00:06
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Look at this layout. It is made for the linear thinker. The guy who did this was reading my mind. I don't know how I missed this when Kinetic 2 was released. I mean - I bought it...but I don't think I ever even looked at it for more than two seconds:  Being able to paint cells into the Song Arranger is so killer...and I don't need more than the one stereo mix track. Nor do I need Matrix cells. This entire page has everything a "songwriter" needs. P5 was more geared towards "Live" performances. The current Matrix View effort in X1 - well, are they trying to please both crowds? By starting from scratch? Yes, Cakewalk is trying to reinvent the two wheels they already have. And Kinetic 2 is perfect as it is (was) for linear SONGWRITING. That is my assessment of the situation. Now to get Kinetic to work properly in its somewhat buggy form...on an older XP machine with limited ram and processing speeds...which limits the instruments and effects I can load "The Band" up with.
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relpomiraculous
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/09/01 12:35:55
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Feature Request: add the Groove Mixer section's keypad and the Song Arranger section to the "View" dropdown menu in Sonar X_ and simply call it "Arranger" View.
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ba_midi
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/09/01 14:03:16
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relpomiraculous
Feature Request: add the Groove Mixer section's keypad and the Song Arranger section to the "View" dropdown menu in Sonar X_ and simply call it "Arranger" View.
Heh, there's a lot of wishful thinking going on here ;) I doubt we'll ever see any of this in X1. MAYBE X2 or 3, but I'd bet not X1.
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Notecrusher
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/09/01 16:56:12
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candlesayshi
My Matrix View deal-breaker: Not being able to record directly to cells.
+1 My one wish for X2 is Matrix 2.0 aka Matrix done right.
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Chrisma
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/09/02 10:45:02
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relpomiraculous
Look at this layout. It is made for the linear thinker. The guy who did this was reading my mind. I don't know how I missed this when Kinetic 2 was released. I mean - I bought it...but I don't think I ever even looked at it for more than two seconds:
Being able to paint cells into the Song Arranger is so killer...and I don't need more than the one stereo mix track. Nor do I need Matrix cells. This entire page has everything a "songwriter" needs. P5 was more geared towards "Live" performances. The current Matrix View effort in X1 - well, are they trying to please both crowds? By starting from scratch? Yes, Cakewalk is trying to reinvent the two wheels they already have. And Kinetic 2 is perfect as it is (was) for linear SONGWRITING. That is my assessment of the situation.
Now to get Kinetic to work properly in its somewhat buggy form...on an older XP machine with limited ram and processing speeds...which limits the instruments and effects I can load "The Band" up with.
If your going to dive into Kinetic one tip I will give is to NOT use the groove mixer for general panning and levels. Those control follow the patterns. So if you raise or lower the volume in channel on pattern 6 for example it will NOT effect the volume level on any other patterns. The groove mixer is not global. I control the volume/pan via a plugin on each channel. That being said the groove mixer works fantastic for automation. You choose a pattern/groove hit record and the movements are recorded. How sweet is that! I spent so much time trying to keep my levels consistant across patterns/grooves before I finally realize this much simpler way of working with Kinetic.
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Chrisma
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Re:The Matrix View: reinventing the wheel
2011/09/02 14:13:59
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Notecrusher
candlesayshi
My Matrix View deal-breaker: Not being able to record directly to cells.
+1
My one wish for X2 is Matrix 2.0 aka Matrix done right.
+1 I'm working on project now I did all the midi in X1 and it finally hit me why working on midi is not my favorite this to do in SONAR. It's because I like working on songs a section at a time and only having on screen the section that I'm working on. Plus I also like to easily and quickly bounce around the entire song and make tweaks as I go. If its an 8 bar verse then all I want to see 8 bars. This can be done in X1 by creating a loop (8 bars for example) point in timeline but and creating makers you can jump to at anytime. But as you can see it can be a cumbersome workflow with moving the loop point, clicking on the marker, and resizing the piano roll to only show 8 bars. One thing I really like about P5 is when you record midi it automatically creates the loop for you. So you hit record and start playing and hit stop it says (so to speak) "oh, you just recorded 4 bars, let me just make that a 4 bar loop 4 ya". Cakewalk was way ahead of the pack with Kinetic and P5. If they roll some of that functionality in X1 that would again be amazing. I would love see Kinectic 3.0 that combined Kinetic and P5. Maybe even design a Roland drumpad/control surface (with the Phantom synth built-in) to compete NI Maschine (I know its wishful thinking). I think Macshine is a great product and I'm looking closely at it. Not sure it will do things the way I like though. Kinda spoiled by Kinetic, P5, and BPM.
post edited by Chrisma - 2011/09/02 14:26:20
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