3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache

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ampfixer
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2011/09/08 18:42:37 (permalink)

3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache

I'm unable to get my latency under control. I started yesterday with the Cake UA25 box, bought a tascam USB unit and it was a dog. Today I bought the new Quad capture from Roland. I have done the installation but really can't get the RTL below 9ms. At this setting there's all sorts of noise and ticking but increasing latency doesn't make it go away.

If anyone is using the Roland Quad capture and would share their settings I would appreciate it. Let me know what settings I need to provide so you can help me. Free tube amp consultations for anyone that helps.

Regards, John 
 I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
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    John
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 18:48:12 (permalink)
    Have you done a DPC latency check? With your system you should be doing a whole lot better. But audio latency is a sound card/driver issue. System specs have little to do with it. You can get the DPC latency checker here.

    Best
    John
    #2
    OBHave
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 19:00:37 (permalink)
    Have you tried the devices in different USB slots?  On some machines the USB slots aren't equal due to IRQ sharing etc.  On my laptop one of the USB ports is clearly superior to all the others even though they're all supposedly USB 2.0.

    I agree with John, you should be able to do much better than 9ms RTL.  
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    Jonbouy
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 19:57:25 (permalink)
    Just a reminder that DPC Checker in itself does nothing, being as some people think that it is some sugar pill that just by running it it will solve anything.

    It wont.  In the event it does show some weird deferred procedure call stuff it can help you find out what is causing any of those DPC issues often a network related driver taking priority for example.  So it's an aid for diagnosis that's all.  You will often find you have no DPC issues to worry about at all yet still have latency issues.

    Try OB's practical suggestion first off as USB ports can differ greatly.  Then check your actual latency figures by doing a loopback test rather than going from the ASIO reported latency which can often be way off.

    Here's a little app to do that. Read the instructions for use.

    http://centrance.com/downloads/ltu/

    Last of all check that the actual latency you end up with is indeed detrimental, many claim ridiculously low RTL figures on here (because little boys tend to behave like that ) yet the amount you can actually live with in the real world may be far greater.

    My Quad set at 64 samples at 48,000 kHz shows 9 ms ASIO RTL reported, the loop back shows the actual to be around 7.4 ms, it's rock solid at that and causes me no timing issues.
    post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/08 20:02:43

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
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    John
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 20:01:56 (permalink)
    Last of all check that the actual latency you end up with is indeed detrimental, many claim ridiculously low RTL figures on here (because little boys tend to behave like that ) yet the amount you can actually live with in the real world may be far greater.
    Absolutely true. Sometimes I wonder what is going one with some claims. I remember a claim of .1 ms which I still have trouble believing.



    Best
    John
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    kc2ine
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 20:41:55 (permalink)
    I have octa-capture but it should be same as quad - at 96K sampling freq the latency is 4ms in and 1ms out with macbook pro. 

    V-Studio 100, Sony VAIO i7 2.93GHz/ 8GB RAM, Pianoteq, Sonar X1 Studio, ezDrummer, Macbook Pro, Roland RD700GX stage piano, Yamaha Motif XS6 workstation, Rode NT-1A, AKG Perception 220 
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    Bub
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 20:42:45 (permalink)
    Jonbouy

    Here's a little app to do that. Read the instructions for use.

    http://centrance.com/downloads/ltu/

    ... many claim ridiculously low RTL figures on here (because little boys tend to behave like that ) yet the amount you can actually live with in the real world may be far greater.

    My Quad set at 64 samples at 48,000 kHz shows 9 ms ASIO RTL reported, the loop back shows the actual to be around 7.4 ms, it's rock solid at that and causes me no timing issues.
    Frickin' sweet Mr. Bouy! Nice utility!!! I LOVE IT!!!!!



    But ... I have to say ... X1 was only off .3ms which is less than the .5ms variance Centrance says their utility can exhibit.



    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
    #7
    Jonbouy
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 20:56:01 (permalink)
    There you go Bub.

    Your reported latency is pretty much on the money. Nice to know though ain't it?

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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    ampfixer
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 21:24:43 (permalink)
    WOW!

    Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the ideas and links. FYI, I have looked at the system with the latency software and my average measurement is about 120us. I've used ASTRA32 to look at my system and USB ports in particular. I'm getting 480mb/sec throughput to the quad capture on a USB 2.0 port connected to the MB. I'll try all the ports to be sure, there's 14, including a self powered USB 2 hub.

    I'm finding the numbers being reported in X1's preferences a bit misleading. By that, I mean a reported latency of 15ms can feel more responsive than a set up where the reported latency is 5ms. Admittedly, it's all Geek to me.

    I will go through the suggestions and see what I can do.


    **Free tip of the day

    If you really like the Fender tweed amp sound and want your repro Bassman to kick a** try this.

    Get the high voltage under control by using a 5U4GB rectifier tube. The amp will feel much looser due to the reduction in B+ voltage and the increase in B+ drop under load.

    Pick up a set of current production Tung Sol 5881 power tubes. NOT any 5881. The Tung Sol is a 23 watt tube just like the original and has the sweetest tone for guitar. It's also virtually identicle to the original in appearance.

    When you bias the amp don't run the tubes too hot. Set them to idle at about 12 - 14 watts. At this point you should be so close to the real deal that Leo will be smiling somewhere.

    Regards, John 
     I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps.
    WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig,  Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6 
    #9
    Bub
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 21:29:37 (permalink)
    Hi ampfixer,

    One thing you can try to see how much latency you have is, do a mic test with input echo on in Sonar and monitor it via your sound card as well. You'll hear the 0 latency signal mixed with the processed signal. You won't get any numbers doing that, but you'll definately be able to hear how much of a delay you're getting. Kind of like the double effect on the VX-64 Vocal Strip.

    Good luck with this and thanks for the tube tips. :)

    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
    #10
    Bub
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 21:31:41 (permalink)
    I'm assuming you are talking about the DPC Latency Checker when you said you are seeing 120µs. That's very high. You should be seeing around 10µs where it says "Current Latency".
    post edited by Bub - 2011/09/08 21:33:39

    "I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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    Jonbouy
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    Re:3 Interfaces, 2 days, 1 big headache 2011/09/08 21:41:31 (permalink)
    ampfixer

    I'm finding the numbers being reported in X1's preferences a bit misleading. By that, I mean a reported latency of 15ms can feel more responsive than a set up where the reported latency is 5ms.

    Exactly what I was trying to say.

    I'm monitoring on my Quad now via Sonar's playback without issue.

    On my old PCI card which used to show 5ms I used to sense the latency to the point where I'd have to monitor the hardware directly. Not only that I used to have to increase the buffer size further when loading up plug-ins and stuff for mixing.

    Now I just set the card up for 64 samples and forget about it.  It works like a charm here and that's more important to me than what the readouts are showing in ms.

    btw thanks for the amp tip...
    post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/08 21:43:29

    "We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
    In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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