Treefight
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Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
I'm using an Nvidia 440 quad with low memory, 128 MB, and four discrete monitors: two 27" and one 22" HP and an LG 50" plasma TV. The card connects with splitters so that I have four DVI-outs from the card (recently upgraded the splitter from VGA outs). The quality on the PC monitors is great; on the TV (on a wall four feet behind my workstation, about six or seven feet from my position) it's not-so-great. The LG is new (Dec 2010). I know that pixel size is part of the reason it's never going to look as if it were a 50" PC monitor. Running X1c x64 in W7 x64 on a i7 950 machine, 3.07 GhZ w/12 GB RAM. I allow Windows to run Aero. I'm typing this on my brand new high-end (work) laptop with a Radeon HD 6490M at 1920x1080 full HD (with either 2 or 3GB or Vram), which was a significant upgrade from the standard video card offering (HP online purchase). The graphics on my laptop are incredible. Which prompted me to wonder what would happen if I ran X1 through this card or something similar to the LG TV. Ok, my issue/question: after researching the issue of DAWs and video card quality, the consensus seems to be, logically, that we don't need top-end video cards because we're not gaming or editing video; X1/digital audio production simply does not demand the highest quality and most video-ram out of its cards. Makes sense. Obviously, however, I want to take full advantage of the plasma TV. I also do want to maintain a quad configuration, but putting that aside for a moment, what are the factors in a video card that most strongly impact image quality on a TV being used as a monitor for X1? For example, would more video ram make a noticeable difference? The Nvidia 440 Quad is also now three-plus years old, so are there other aspects/improvements in quality that have obviously taken place over that time that would make a difference? Essentially I'm wondering three things, and any info about any of the three would help: (1) what qualities/specs in a video card used with an HD plasma TV as a PC monitor solely for X1 use (i.e., I'm not gaming, editing video, or otherwise using any other more graphic-intensive or "video" applications); (2) if anyone one has been down this road and has specific examples; (3) what options are available that would allow for improved picture quality on the plasma in a quad-output configuraton (specifically, I'm not cloning screens, I'm talking about four separate video outs). Thanks very much for any information. Warm regards and all hail this forum!
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dariunas
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 00:15:19
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As I understand it, graphics RAM is the most helpful GFX card spec for multiple-monitor displays. 1-2Gb is great to have. Having said that, I used to use an MSI 512Mb 5900GT card; not exactly high end (full detail in my sig I think) and had no problems at all with dual display at 1600x1050. A splitter will likely degrade the visual quality of one of your displays, probably darkening it. The only advantage of a better GFX card might be freeing some CPU/RAM for audio purposes. In that sense, it's certainly useful. I've personally found that nVidia cards handle multi-displays better, but it has been a while since I've used ATi - I was not a fan of their dodgy drivers. :\
--Intel Quad Core P2.4Ghz (Q6600) 8Gb RAM, MSI Fanless 9500GT, OCZ Vertex SSD 60Gb + Samsung Spinpoint 750Gb (x2=1.4Tb), M-Audio Axiom Pro49, M-Audio Audiophile 24/96, M-Audio Delta 1010, Yamaha HS10, Edirol MA-15D-- --Win 7 Pro 64-bit, Sonar 7 PE x64 & x86, Reaper, Reason 4, Sound Forge, EWQL Silver & EWQL Gypsy, NI Komplete7 & Kore2--
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Lanceindastudio
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 00:20:35
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I'm running an old 7600gt with only 256mb ram and I'm on windows 64 bit, having no issues. All to the good ;) If you get an upgraded video card to the on board video, if you have that, that is current in the market and has dual video out for your needs, it is probably gonna be just fine. I also stick to Nvidia, but my brother has an Ati card with dual monitors that performs great. Lance
Asus P8Z77-V LE PLUS Motherboard i7 3770k CPU 32 gigs RAM Presonus AudioBox iTwo Windows 10 64 bit, SONAR PLATINUM 64 bit Lots of plugins and softsynths and one shot samples, loops Gauge ECM-87, MCA SP-1, Alesis AM51 Presonus Eureka Mackie HR824's and matching subwoofer
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mudgel
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 08:00:50
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Seth Perlstein has stated on this forum that a 1 GIG graphics card is highly recommended due to X1's significantly greater amount of graphics handling compared to previous versions. I'm pretty sure he didn't mean X1 won't work on less graphics memory but he was speaking optimal performance.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 08:14:50
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No one has actually explained why extra graphics memory is beneficial with SONAR. There are repeated implications that more is better and that something special happens over on the GPU... but seemingly no one can explain what those special processes are. Other folks will tell you that Aero makes your system run better. For example; "less hurtful" is a term I've seen used here at the forum. But when you go search thru Microsoft's and Intel's websites Aero is never mentioned as anything other than a deluxe end user experience. There is never any mention on Microsoft's website that supports the implications that AERO offers any performance gains within the system. They sort of infer that AERO can make you happy and more productive. from: http://www.cakewalk.com/P...er-System-Requirements "SONAR X1 Producer System Requirements The following are the minimum recommended system requirements for SONAR X1 Producer. - Windows XP Service Pack 3 (32-bit)/Vista Service Pack 2 (32- or 64-bit)/Windows 7 (32- or 64-bit)*
- Intel Core 2 Duo E8200 2.67 GHz/AMD Phenom Quad Core 9750 2.4 Ghz
- 2 GB RAM
- 1280x800 minimum screen resolution
- 4.5GB for minimal installation, 15GB for complete installation
- SONAR on DVD: DVD-ROM, DVD+/-R or DVD+/-RW Drive
- SONAR download: Broadband or better internet connection for download
- Cakewalk Publisher requires available web server space with FTP access
* Windows XP Media Center and Windows XP 64-bit are not officially supported." As you have demonstrated... you are running 4 screens on 128MB of memory. With regards to your TV set. The conversion to video occurs within the set. When I purchased my most recent TV set I got a SONY because they have great implementation of conversion math and the picture looks stunning even when I hook up the HDMI to a wimpy little laptop video output. I don't know anything about LG... but I suspect that your results are more constrained by the TV than the video output on your system. Having said all that it seems real easy to find a cheap video card with lots of onboard memory... the only downside is the possible need for a fan which will begin life as a quiet appliance and will end it's life as a source of noise. Good luck. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/09/19 08:16:17
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timidi
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 08:35:43
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Having said all that it seems real easy to find a cheap video card with lots of onboard memory... the only downside is the possible need for a fan which will begin life as a quiet appliance and will end it's life as a source of noise. I find/found it quite difficult to find a decent card (still don't think I have) . Mainly due to 2 factors that I wanted: quiet and low profile. In my mind, any card with a fan won't cut it. So, then you have to deal with huge heat sinks. So, if you have a PCIe audio card (little slot) and the video card is PCIe (big slot) also, one or the other is not going to fit. Just something to keep in mind.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 08:41:01
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I ran a dual monitor setup on a card with 128mb on board and have recently upgreaded to a fanless card (5450 I think) with 1gb onboard graphics. If I'm honest I was a little disappointed with the performance increase, or rather lack of it. I'm not sure what I was expecting though. The only real difference is I no longer get drop outs when abusing screensets switching, by abuse I mean changing 3 or 4 times in as many seconds like I do when I realise I've selected the wrong one. I would have thought with 4 displays on 1 card you would see slightly better performance increase than I did.
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John T
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 09:24:01
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More video memory does not give an obvious linear performance improvement. It really depends on your usage patterns. It's best to start off by thinking how Windows handles graphics. First off, memory: Windows (all current versions including XP) tries to maintain a current image of every window currently running, whether you can see it or not. So if you have lots of stuff open at a time, this starts to mount up. In XP, Windows will keep these images in video card memory whenever it can, but XP also keeps a spare copy in system memory, no matter what. Bit crazy, but there you go. In Win7, the handling this is improved, and general system memory is left untouched unless you have run out of video memory. This is assuming you have a reasonably sensible video card, that isn't just borrowing system memory anyway. Second factor is performance. XP does all its handling of the Windows GUI on your CPU. The only thing the video card does is assemble the images its sent. Hence the XP tweaks about turning off shadows and all that stuff. In Win 7 and Vista, huge amounts of this stuff is now dealt with more optimally on the video card. So apart from on very very peculiar system configurations, there's no benefit at all to switching off the aero features; they aren't competing with Sonar for resources. In your case, as you point out, you're running Aero just fine with not a lot of video memory. This is because the processing is what would impact performance, and that's being done on the video card. Were you to get more video memory, your amount of free RAM would go up slightly, but that's about all the change you'd see. As to whether you'll see tangible performance gains, like higher track count and so on... You probably would, but I suspect not improvements to write home about. Running the aero desktop and the Sonar UI does not really tax even fairly low end modern video cards.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 10:08:04
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"In XP, Windows will keep these images in video card memory whenever it can, but XP also keeps a spare copy in system memory, no matter what. Bit crazy, but there you go." Last I heard it amounts to less than 10MB per window. best regards, mike
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Jonbouy
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 10:34:39
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Specifically on the Aero thing, I started out with Aero disabled, since reading that having it enabled may improve Sonar's performance I enabled it. And yes the display is improved by having it on, most noticeably flicker is much reduced on stuff being refreshed in real time, such as meters and things like that. I turned off much of the unecessary Aero stuff like transparency, etc, and then the resource usage between having it disabled or not is negligible. I'm using the 2600K's Intel 3000 on-chip video which does use system memory but with no issues at all running Sonar. So yes I'd recommend turning Aero on, or rather leaving it enabled, from my experience. If I was in the market for a second display a new fanless 5450 card (@£25) isn't going to break the bank and comes recommended by one of the well known DAW builders that frequent these forums. If it comes overspecced with a full Gb on board that fact alone certainly isn't going to do any harm, and you certainly wont get anything significantly cheaper these days by looking for one with less memory on it.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2011/09/19 10:37:21
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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timidi
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 10:47:17
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John T
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 10:55:10
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Actually, what I say above is inaccurate, in that XP doesn't store the contents of every window, but simply the composite image that you see on the desktop. What this means is that XPs video memory requirements are lower, but its performance impact is higher, as every time you move or minimise or maximise a window, the entire lot has to be re-calculated. Win 7 vista not only doesn't have to do this, but is also doing moat of its work on the GPU rather than the CPU. So there are two specific areas of performance gain.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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mudgel
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 11:01:17
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A fanless grarphics card is all well and good but there is also the thought that increased heat within the case from these cards is only going to trigger other fans to run faster to dissipate the extra heat coming from the graphics card's heat sinks. I have a high end card which has a fan but when doing audio work it barely ticks over. Certainly not audible above the level of anything else happening in my control room or even in the case. Now if I do some heavy duty video rendering or 3D stuff then away she goes 'a whirring out loudly' but then it's not an issue.
Mike V. (MUDGEL) STUDIO: Win 10 Pro x64, SPlat & CbB x64, PC: ASUS Z370-A, INTEL i7 8700k, 32GIG DDR4 2400, OC 4.7Ghz. Storage: 7 TB SATA III, 750GiG SSD & Samsung 500 Gig 960 EVO NVMe M.2. Monitors: Adam A7X, JBL 10” Sub. Audio I/O & DSP Server: DIGIGRID IOS & IOX. Screen: Raven MTi + 43" HD 4K TV Monitor. Keyboard Controller: Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol S88.
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 11:54:28
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I concour that a fan can be an advantage. Since putting in my fanless card I've had to back my overclocking down a bit just to keep the temps in check. I've come down from 3.4Ghz to 3.0 and seeing the same temps as the higher clock speed with a graphics card with a fan. The only change I've made is the card so there must be something in that.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 12:30:21
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John T Actually, what I say above is inaccurate, in that XP doesn't store the contents of every window, but simply the composite image that you see on the desktop. What this means is that XPs video memory requirements are lower, but its performance impact is higher, as every time you move or minimise or maximise a window, the entire lot has to be re-calculated. Win 7 vista not only doesn't have to do this, but is also doing moat of its work on the GPU rather than the CPU. So there are two specific areas of performance gain. Hi John T, Some how, it almost seems, to me, like you are suggesting that using a GPU to render the desktop display is new and was introduced in Win 7. What has my video GPU been doing on my graphics accelerator cards for the past 20 or so years since I moved up to 16bit (and eventually 32bit) display output? Are there any further details about what's specifically new to Win7? best, mike
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John T
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 12:36:48
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I've already explained the difference. I don't know what to add to make it clearer.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Video card quality & memory with multiple monitors: what specs make a difference?
2011/09/19 12:38:09
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Ok thanks anyway. It wasn't that I didn't understand what you are saying... it is that what you are saying seems, to me, rather vague. Can any one else explain what is actually specifically different? best regards, mike edit for clarity
post edited by mike_mccue - 2011/09/19 12:40:14
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