vaultwit
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Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
Given only what is included with Sonar X1, what is the best way to maximize volume while mastering to match volume levels of processional commercial songs?
I'm thinking Boost11 may be the only plugin who's main objective is this. But how should one go about using Boost11, or other plugins for that matter? Using the limiter on each track to raise the volume of each track invidually so that the final mix has the desired volume level? Only using the limiter on the master bus (or preliminary bus) and not on any of the individual tracks? Combination of the two?
Any help would be appreciated, thanks.
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lfm
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 02:11:44
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Quick reply is not doing volume maximizing on tracks to get total up.
Use limiter on Master channel only to raise mix level if you need that.
From your question I would recommend getting a book about mixing. When you have everything in place there you could start thinking about mastering.
"Mixing Engineer's Handbook" by Bobby Owsinsky is one book I recommend. Give you the tools and thinking what is needed in a mix.
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brundlefly
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 02:20:00
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Boost 11 is a limiter. Limiting is just high-ratio compression. Boost 11 is to compression what a sledge hammer is to proper body-working tools.
Applying targeted compression and equalization to individual tracks and frequency bands of tracks (see LP-64 Multiband Compressor) as needed, and using several stages of moderate compression rather than one final stage of compression/limiting will allow you to get a louder mix with less audibly damaging side-effects.
Google "Loudness Wars".
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vaultwit
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 02:52:52
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I am aware of the idea behind "Loudness wars" and understand it, but am afraid that my listeners may not be. Which is why I want to achieve at least close to the volume levels I described. Even to me, looking back at my original post, I can see that it might've sounded as though I'm relying ONLY on Boost11 (or just limiting in general) to maximize my volumes. But what I meant to ask really is if the volume-maximizing should be done more in individual tracks or in final buses, whether its from Boost11 or something else. brundlefly
Applying targeted compression and equalization to individual tracks and frequency bands of tracks (see LP-64 Multiband Compressor) as needed, and using several stages of moderate compression rather than one final stage of compression/limiting will allow you to get a louder mix with less audibly damaging side-effects.
Google "Loudness Wars".
I've done that for the most part on my individual tracks, and without bus limiting, the volume from all the tracks combined combined have a pretty decent volume (close to commercial songs). And WITH bus limiting, I've gotten pretty darn close (some may not even notice the difference) to commercial songs, but just not quite there. But if I add more limiting, there becomes some noticeable (at least in my ears) pumping and volume oscillations from the limiter. As always I appreciate the input, and more are of course welcomed.
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AT
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 10:37:43
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Send it to a mastering house or buy some external hardware comp/limiters. That is what many mastering houses use to add that final bit of volume without any nasty overs. Warning, this can get expensive. And I doubt if your audience will notice if you don't point it out unless your audience is audiphiles or engineers.
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daryl1968
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 11:02:46
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Vaultwit As, I am sure you are aware, there are many different views about mastering and a fair bit of snobbery. The best piece of software (behind X1 and CD architect) that I have bought is Ozone 4. Great value and, in my opinion, a great tool. I have had some decent results with Boost 11 if you don't want to spend the money but I find the limiting much more transparent in Ozone.
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bitflipper
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 13:11:04
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1. Do not attempt to maximize individual tracks. 2. Do not rely on the limiter exclusively for volume maximization. Apply a compressor (sometimes two compressors in series) to the master bus, ahead of the limiter. 3. Don't obsess over getting your peaks to within a tenth of decibel of the maximum. Nobody will notice if your peaks are at -1db rather than -0.1db, but people will notice if you have overs. 4. Although SONAR's bundled effects are generally satisfactory, CW has curiously never bundled a good mastering limiter. Consequently, it's the leading candidate for third-party solutions. There are a great many available, but among the more affordable products, the big three are iZotope Ozone ($200), Voxengo Elephant ($120) and FabFilter Pro-L ($230), any of which will do what you want quite well. 5. If you must use Boost11, use a very gentle setting. {EDIT} 6. And of course, if you can afford it, hiring a real mastering engineer can potentially yield better results than anything you could do yourself. But beware: the MAJORITY of online mastering services are just guys in their basement like you who may or may not actually know what they're doing or be properly equipped. Don't be fooled by a photo of a cool-looking pro studio - often, it's not even a picture of their own studio!
post edited by bitflipper - 2011/09/19 13:15:53
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Bub 
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 13:32:41
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vaultwit
... what is the best way to maximize volume while mastering to match volume levels of processional commercial songs?
Normally processional songs are played softly.
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John
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 13:38:02
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bitflipper
1. Do not attempt to maximize individual tracks.
2. Do not rely on the limiter exclusively for volume maximization. Apply a compressor (sometimes two compressors in series) to the master bus, ahead of the limiter.
3. Don't obsess over getting your peaks to within a tenth of decibel of the maximum. Nobody will notice if your peaks are at -1db rather than -0.1db, but people will notice if you have overs.
4. Although SONAR's bundled effects are generally satisfactory, CW has curiously never bundled a good mastering limiter. Consequently, it's the leading candidate for third-party solutions. There are a great many available, but among the more affordable products, the big three are iZotope Ozone ($200), Voxengo Elephant ($120) and FabFilter Pro-L ($230), any of which will do what you want quite well.
5. If you must use Boost11, use a very gentle setting.
{EDIT}
6. And of course, if you can afford it, hiring a real mastering engineer can potentially yield better results than anything you could do yourself. But beware: the MAJORITY of online mastering services are just guys in their basement like you who may or may not actually know what they're doing or be properly equipped. Don't be fooled by a photo of a cool-looking pro studio - often, it's not even a picture of their own studio!
I don't see how this advice can be improved upon.
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dlesaux
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/19 20:35:27
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/20 05:09:09
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Another good limiter worth considering is the T-Racks3 single.
I've been using it for the last 2 years, and I can't fault it.
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quibb
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/20 05:53:49
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Another vote for Ozone 4. Awesome tool. Excellent advice above, though...
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/20 08:02:21
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Don't try to make it a loud brick. Let it breathe.
the advice Bitflipper gave is spot on.
I use Ozone 4 and do not overcompress to get loud mixes. I do also run 2 compressors in series as Dave mentioned. That can work nicely if done right.
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Myuzishin
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/20 11:59:10
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bitflipper
1. Do not attempt to maximize individual tracks.
2. Do not rely on the limiter exclusively for volume maximization. Apply a compressor (sometimes two compressors in series) to the master bus, ahead of the limiter.
3. Don't obsess over getting your peaks to within a tenth of decibel of the maximum. Nobody will notice if your peaks are at -1db rather than -0.1db, but people will notice if you have overs.
4. Although SONAR's bundled effects are generally satisfactory, CW has curiously never bundled a good mastering limiter. Consequently, it's the leading candidate for third-party solutions. There are a great many available, but among the more affordable products, the big three are iZotope Ozone ($200), Voxengo Elephant ($120) and FabFilter Pro-L ($230), any of which will do what you want quite well.
5. If you must use Boost11, use a very gentle setting.
{EDIT}
6. And of course, if you can afford it, hiring a real mastering engineer can potentially yield better results than anything you could do yourself. But beware: the MAJORITY of online mastering services are just guys in their basement like you who may or may not actually know what they're doing or be properly equipped. Don't be fooled by a photo of a cool-looking pro studio - often, it's not even a picture of their own studio!
Sounds like sound (!) advice to me. Your focus should be maintaining the clarity and balance in the final product, not hitting a dB mark on some meter your listeners don't have. They DO have a volume knob, tho...if your stuff sounds good, they'll turn it up.
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ludwigvanlee
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/21 04:59:30
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You can't get things as loud as commercial tracks only through the mastering process if the mixing process wasn't given forethought
Usually the most basic of tools
1) filtering extraneous frequencies (any decent EQ)
2) clipping/limiting peaks of individual tracks (Boost 11)
3) Spreading volume throughout the Stereo field Panning
4) Controlling Dynamics (RMS) of tracks (Any compressor)
Once you've done this, your Mix is given space to breathe, and the mastering engineer can fill that space up with "Volume" or psychoacoustic
also, -10 RMS with a muddy Bass and Mid frequency will not sound as loud as -10 RMS evenly balanced track
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Deisel401rs
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Re:Maximizing volume during mastering process: BEST way in Sonar X1?
2011/09/21 10:10:41
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Speaking of 2 compressors together, has anyone used the VC-64 for this. I'm not even close to the mastering stage but am curious about the true quality of the VC-64 and the LP-64 for "at home mastering".
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