ProjectM
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Drum Editing.....
SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Needed to vent Thank you for your time
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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batsbrew
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Re:Drum Editing.....
September 20, 11 5:55 PM
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ProjectM
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Re:Drum Editing.....
September 20, 11 6:03 PM
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(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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ProjectM
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 02, 11 5:43 PM
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Hey! I don't mean to start bad mouthing PT here - but have any of you any experience with the Beat Detective? I have 13 songs with 18 track drum recordings that I have to keep editing even after the producer and drummer said they are good to go and some of the problems I run into is some weird artefacts because of the Beat Detective. It sounds like a short machinegun burst, tripple drum hits or or just a digital stretch with poor algorithm or something. It's baffles me!
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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jbow
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 02, 11 6:12 PM
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Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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ProjectM
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 02, 11 6:13 PM
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Yeah, I thought Beat Detective was the holy grail of timing adjustment but I'm stuck with dozens of idiotic mistakes and a grumpy drummer who is tired of my complaining
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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jbow
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 02, 11 6:22 PM
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Marius, you're using Beat Detective and PT? Not that I care, I dont... I have been thinking about what drum program to comitt to. Of course I have SD3 and I have TT EZD lite. I have the Andy Johns kit for SD3, I have loads of loops... I now that I wil do best if I choose one drum program and learn it well. I really like the new Americana set for EZD... and have been thinking about upgrading EXD lite to EZD, then maybe to Superior Drummer but I really think it is more than I need. Maybe SD3 is all I need. Then there is BFD... I don't know but I am going to keep a close eye on these drum threads. Are they al about the same to you Marius? and BTW, did you get the Monks CDs? Do you like them? Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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ProjectM
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 02, 11 7:47 PM
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Oh no, I wouldn't use PT to save my life or actually I probably would but not when I have a choice. I'm working on a rather large project but I don't have any facilities that are suitable for multitrack drum recording, or even possible, so we've been to a different studio for drum tracking and editing. Some of these songs are really difficult to play so they've been using Beat Detective to adjust some of the parts which have left us with some annoying details like I described. I have the consolidated audio from the PT projects loaded into Sonar and am doing my edits There. The rest of the album is being recorded in Sonar as well which can be done in my studio. Sounds like you have a pretty decent collection of drum sounds there Julien. I haven't tried them all but I used Battery for years, and still do for more over processed drum sounds and one shot percussion like subs and stuff. Electronic drums mostly. When only using a VST instead of a real drummer I swear to Superior Drummer 2 and I find it to be amazing! I have a few kits for it too. It can do as much or as little as you want it to and the presets you get for it are really good starting points until you learn to set up a mix by your self. And if I'm not mistaken, you can load your EZD kits into it as well. I recomend it higly because I have never heard real drums better than that in software. SD3 is cool enough but I haven't really played with it much. I only use it on my laptop for when I'm away from my studio and need to make something. Then I'll replace it with Battery or SD2 when I load it up in my studio. I haven't tried the additional kits for it but I hear good things about it and I've heard some good stuff made with it in the songs forum. I tried Addictive Drums for a while. Many people swear to that one but I didn't like it. And neither did my computer. Or Sonar at the time. Just not a tool for me. And BFD, never been there either but that, as I understand, is the biggest contender to SD2, They're not the same to me, but one thing that is certain; none of them actually sound bad. They're all good. It just comes down to what you like I think. Of course some of the Drum Samplers out there are more detailed and have been recorded with higher quality gear so that has to be taken into consideration too when making a choice. I got SD2 because the software looked logical to me (and turned out to be) and I loved what I heard of it. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I'm no expert and only know what I know but I'll be happy to share it if it can help you decide on a specific drum package And yes, I got the Monks CD and been listening to them a lot! It's weird music, but it's really cool! Thanks again for pointing me in that direction
post edited by ProjectM - October 02, 11 7:49 PM
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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ChuckC
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 02, 11 10:12 PM
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A few months ago I bought ez drummer and I personally really like the sounds I am geting from that much better than SD3 , I think having the ability to let the mic's bleed a little and then the room mics really help it sound like an actual mic'd kit. Granted I play rock music and want a modern sounding kit that sounds like our acoustic kit does live. For recording I record the midi data from my v drums and send it through ez drummer. I usually have a bit of editing to remove ghost notes and double triggers but it comes out perfect for me in the end.
ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's, lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's, DI's, Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t. http://www.everythingiam.net/ http://www.stormroomstudios.com Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
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Danny Danzi
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 02, 11 11:45 PM
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Brother M, the artifacts you describe usually come from two things. 1. Excessive output from the drum you are working with. This can trip the threshold and simulate multiple hits. 2. Threshold: You may have to automate some threshold for certain hits. Go to the area where it is doing this and mess with the threshold in BD. See if it stops or cuts it down. The only other thing I can suggest (which I had to do recently on a project like yours) was to let it do it's thing, render the file and then replace the artifacts with another drum hit of the same caliber somewhere else in the track. This usually happens to me on snare drums. You get that machine-gun like trigger effect. Usually adjusting the threshold for that section fixes it, but then you suffer in other sections. So you may just have to render and replace the part that is giving you the artifacts. I had a snare doing this like crazy the other night...so I finally said "enough" and rendered, then cut that part out, and replaced it with a good hit from somewhere else. Hope this helps...good luck. -Danny
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craigb
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 03, 11 2:30 AM
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I used to program drum tracks from scratch, but then I found that even playing my V-drums poorly just to enter the basic MIDI data (which, obviously, needed some major correction) was a more enjoyable method. I'll correct the timing to be more consistent, but I'll usually leave the level variances in so it seems more "human." I've never been able to program decent fills by hand either so the v-drums help there too...
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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ProjectM
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 03, 11 9:42 AM
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Hey Danny! Thanks for that info. unfortunately I don't have the actual PT files. They're on a HDD 500 miles or so away from here. I have never touched Beat Detective, just watched others use it but I have never heard these artefacts before. Anyway, I do like you suggest and just cut out pieces and paste something else in there. I am replacing everything from single hits to entire parts. It's not a small job, but it's really cool to hear how much better it sounds so I have faith that this will turn out good. but the next time I'm in a PT studio I will definitely keep an eye on the Threshold as you describe and make sure who ever works it are paying attention to it. I have mostly noticed it on Snare Drums as well. But I have the occasional Kick that is messed up and even worse, the over head channels suffer from this too. And besides some poor playing this is adding up to be too much work than what I was expecting. But thanks for the tip Danny, next time I will pay attention to this while recording and hopefully have a much more pleasant experience
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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ProjectM
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Re:Drum Editing.....
October 03, 11 9:49 AM
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Craig and Chuck - You both point out a very important issue, timing and mic bleed. Personall I can't stand it when drums sounds robotic and to me there's a significant difference between Robotic and Tight. I use quantize on MIDI drums all the time but I also use Groove Quantize on stuff like the Cymbals and hats to adjust mess up the timing a little. And I Use the MIDI velocity plug in from Cakewalk, which in my opinion gets a lot less credit than it deserves. I use it for random velocities and then I treat the drum sounds as if they were normal drums and it sounds - like you said - more human. And using SD2, it has a round robin feature which really helps to make sure the hits aren't identical. And the Mic bleed feature is absolutely fantastic for getting a convincing room sound. However, nothing beats a human drummer IMO. But when they suck they are the most annoying people on earth. It does depend on what you want to achieve tho;) I usually program my drums with the TriggerFinger but I always play the beats out there. Human mistakes are the best chance of getting Art By Accident after all;)
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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