RM_1
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Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
Recently, I've ran into an issue with Sonar 7 Producer Edition. For some reason, the audio engine won't run and the project won't play if I have more than 14 tracks in a project. This is strange because with the exact same set up, I've been able to have upwards of 40 tracks before my hardware gave me any issues. Even then, I've very rarely had the engine refuse to play. I've tried changing the driver mode, I/O buffers, latency, pretty much everything I could think of to get it to work and nothing has gotten it to play. I've even re-installed the program, but still no luck. To save some time, instead of typing everything out, I've taken some screen pictures of the various audio settings I have that have worked in the past as well as the basic information of my computer. I'm new to this forum, so I'll just provide links to the images. Hopefully that's alright. Basic computer information. http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7255/basicinfo.png Project settings. http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/9186/projectsettings.png Audio options. http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5870/audiooptions.png ASIO panel. http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/183/asiopanel.png MIDI devices. http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4078/mididevices.png The project I'm working on has 25 audio tracks and 3 synth tracks, which is nothing new, I recently worked on one that had about that many audio tracks with 10 or so synth tracks (I can't remember specifics.) As far as effects are concerned, I have 19 all total, 17 of which are the LP64 EQ plug-in, the other two are the vfxFreeHaas plug-in. Neither of these have ever given me issue before and I've been able to, in the past, have many times that number in plug-ins. Before I started having to add more tracks, I was running at around 30% of one processor and next to nothing on the second processor. Other than that, one track has a volume envelope and all of the others just have fade-ins and fade-outs for various parts that need it. I've tried removing effects and removing the MIDI tracks, but that hasn't worked. Concerning hardware, I'm running through a Line 6 Toneport GX USB interface which, from what I've seen while trying to get a replacement, seems to be discontinued. The reason for trying to get a replacement is that, at times, it will turn off without warning. Even with this, I've been able to simply unplug and reconnect it and it worked fine. I've also tried unplugging it and using the built-in audio hardware, the name of which is Conexant High Definition SmartAudio 221. None of this has solved my problem, either. I've also had the latest computer updates and, as far as I can tell, I have the latest drivers for everything installed. It's obvious I'm overlooking something, so if anyone that reads this could be of some assistance, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, if further information is needed about anything, let me know and I'll arrange it. Thanks for your time, -RM_1
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Kev999
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/02 17:41:01
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RM_1 Concerning hardware, I'm running through a Line 6 Toneport GX USB interface which, from what I've seen while trying to get a replacement, seems to be discontinued. The GX is still made, but it now comes with POD Farm instead of GearBox. Similar hardware, different software. http://line6.com/podstudiogx/
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bitflipper
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/02 18:55:38
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...19 all total, 17 of which are the LP64 EQ plug-in... ...and there you have it. You're going to have to increase your buffers - a lot - to accommodate those CPU-munchers. Try substituting the Sonitus EQ for those 17 instances and I'll bet your track count goes WAY up.
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RM_1
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/02 19:17:38
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Kev999, Thank you for providing me with that information. It's strange that I haven't run into that yet as I've looked for it many times. Looking into what you mentioned further, it's more expensive than my current model, which could definitely be an issue. I suppose whenever it gives out, though, I'll be forced to. Again, thank you for the information. Bitflipper, That's odd, I've had probably twice that number with the same effects plug-in and with more tracks than 25. I suppose my settings must have been changed between then and now. My problem with Sonitus EQ is that it's very limited, only 6 bands. A lot of what I do uses up 10 bands, sometimes more. I could probably substitute the ones that use a smaller number, though. What I would prefer to do before I start substituting and re-mixing is what you mentioned: increase the buffers. What would you suggest I up it to?
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Kev999
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/02 19:41:47
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RM_1 Looking into what you mentioned further, it's more expensive than my current model, which could definitely be an issue. I suppose whenever it gives out, though, I'll be forced to. I purchased a GX last year (to use with my laptop) from a London store for £64 (UKP). It may or may not be possible to use the GearBox software with the newer model. If it is possible then it will probably require a licence transfer or maybe some intervention by a Line6 operative. You may find an answer to this on the Line6 support forums. http://line6.com/support/community/support/forums/
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bitflipper
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/02 22:50:43
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☄ Helpful
What I would prefer to do before I start substituting and re-mixing is what you mentioned: increase the buffers. What would you suggest I up it to? In the mixing phase latency is not an issue so you can bump up the buffers as much as you like. (Well, up to a limit - over 4096 there are fast-diminishing returns). I usually mix at 2048, but I have a crap computer. Most folks could probably do as well at 1024. I've never heard anyone complain that 6 bands were insufficient, but you know, different strokes. Personally, the better I get at EQing the fewer bands I use. 99% of my tracks see only 1, 2 or sometimes 3 bands in use. But that's neither here nor there, I'd never try to tell you how to do it! But you might think about substituting the Sonitus EQ where it's practical to do so. The LP-64 really is a monster CPU-eater, and intended for mastering purposes rather than as a track EQ. Many (most?) mixers don't like to use linear-phase equalizers on tracks anyway.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Kev999
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/02 23:14:18
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If you want to use mastering tools on individual tracks, it's advisable to bounce.
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RM_1
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/02 23:42:34
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Kev999, I'll have to admit, I'm not all that familiar with Pounds. Thankfully, there's Google. Hopefully this converter I found is accurate. I think my old model cost £32, so £64 is a bit more than I was expecting to pay. I've been trying to save up for a new computer, and any money I can save is welcome. I was able to find one a bit cheaper, though, around £52. I think I bought it in late 2007 or early 2008, so it would probably be a good idea to upgrade. I can't say it's had the five star treatment. Perhaps when I've saved up the money, I'll just go on a wild shopping spree and get all of it at once. I've had my eye on quite a lot of things. As for bouncing, I have to admit, that never occurred to me. Perhaps I'll replace what I can with Sonitus and bounce the ones that require LP64 Thanks for reminding me of that. Bitflipper, I checked earlier out of curiosity and the limit for me appears to be at 2048. I entered that in and the problem still wasn't solved. Side-tracking a bit, this is the part where I admit I've only been mixing and mastering audio since March 2010. In fact, I learned everything I know about the subject from many Google searches. Odds are, I could work with 6 bands, I just haven't advanced enough to know how. The only reason I started using LP64 is because it allowed the use of more than 6 bands. This is actually my first time reading that it's intended for mastering, and that it's a linear phase equalizer. In fact, I'm not entirely sure what that is. Google is getting a workout tonight. Regardless, I'll be replacing the ones that I can with Sonitus and hopefully that will fix it. I've been looking forward to mixing this song for a few weeks now, so this whole situation has been a bit disheartening. On a slightly different, yet related, note, do you know of any free or, at the very least, cheap EQ plug-ins that would support 8 bands? Perhaps I can start with limiting to 8 and slowly get down to 6. Lastly, I just wanted to say thanks, I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to attempt to provide some answers and to help a bit with this.
post edited by RM_1 - 2011/10/02 23:45:08
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Kev999
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/03 00:25:13
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RM_1 Kev999, I think my old model cost £32, so £64 is a bit more than I was expecting to pay... I think I bought it in late 2007 or early 2008, so it would probably be a good idea to upgrade... £32 for this product sounds too good to be true. Are you sure? The current conversion rate for the UK£ is not even close to its 2007 value. Price comparisons between now and then for non-UK products would be much simpler if you leave the UK£ out of the equation and work in a different currency.
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RM_1
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/03 01:12:32
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I actually checked on this thread to edit my previous comment with an update. Funny how life works sometimes. Kev999, That would be yet another thing I forgot about. I'll stick with what I know best: US dollars. Back then, I paid $50 for the old model, the current model that you showed me, at the cheapest, is selling for $81. Being honest, it's not too bad, but I'm a bit stingy when it comes time to actually put money on the table. Bitflipper, I didn't expect to be done this quick, otherwise I would have waited to post the previous comment. Anyways, an update: after replacing the 17 LP64 plug-ins with 24 Sonitus plug-ins, I'm hearing sound for the first time in days. It will take some getting used to, though. I haven't dealt with that filters option before, so I was surprised when I had to change that to get the desired Q setting, not to mention it handles a bit differently than LP64. Also of note is that my processors are running anywhere from 7-9% each compared to the 30% or so with the other plug-ins. Again, thank you so much for taking the time to help out with this. Now the only problem is I don't have a legitimate excuse to procrastinate. For anyone else who is reading this and has a similar issue, all I did was replace those plug-ins, upped the buffer to 2048, and set my dithering options to 'rectangle.' I'm not all that sure if the dithering did anything, but it's working, so I'm not going to mess with it. Also, just as a heads-up, there's a few seconds of delay before it actually plays. I would assume it has something do with the buffer.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/03 04:27:38
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If the six bands provided by the Sonitus isn't enough (and it should be unless there's something drastically wrong with the source tracks) you can cascade 2 or more instances of the Sonitus and create as complex an EQ curve as you want.
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bitflipper
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/03 11:19:03
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If the six bands provided by the Sonitus isn't enough (and it should be unless there's something drastically wrong with the source tracks) you can cascade 2 or more instances of the Sonitus and create as complex an EQ curve as you want. +1 to this suggestion. It's not as wacky an idea as it might appear at first glance. There are a number of equalizers out there that support a large number or even an unlimited number of bands. Check out Voxengo's GlissEQ or Pro-Q from FabFilter, both of which go beyond basic filtering, but aren't cheap. For a freebie, check out the ReaPlugs collection from Cockos, which contains a number of useful plugins, including a parametric EQ with unlimited bands.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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RM_1
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/03 13:14:35
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Bristol_Jonesey, That's basically what I ended up having to do with a few tracks. My only issue with doing that is it adds more plug-ins to the chain. As long as it doesn't hinder my mixing, though, even that isn't an issue. As I said, I'm probably not mixing correctly, but being self-taught, boiling it down, about all I know to do is analyze it, see where the main bulk of a sound is at, then cut out a bit in that frequency on the other tracks so it comes through a bit. With having multiple synth, drum, guitar, and vocal tracks, things start getting a bit crowded, hence why I've been using LP64. Now that I know how much of a CPU hog that is, though, I'll be doing a lot of cascading. Let's just hope I don't add too many and freeze things up again. Bitflipper, Those are a bit beyond what I'm willing to pay right now. With still learning, I'm hesitant to start buying plug-ins. Just from glancing at them, they seem a little beyond my skill/knowledge. ReaPlugs, though, looks more feasible. That's always a plus with free: they usually can't make things too complicated. Although I admit, I've been pleasantly surprised before. Thank you both for your suggestions.
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Kev999
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/03 22:16:50
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RM_1 Back then, I paid $50 for the old model, the current model that you showed me, at the cheapest, is selling for $81. Being honest, it's not too bad, but I'm a bit stingy when it comes time to actually put money on the table. $81 is still good value. I wouldn't recommend it as a main soundcard though, but it's a great choice if you require something small and light for portibility. The UX models are far better.
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RM_1
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Re:Issues With The Audio Engine And Track Restrictions - Sonar 7 Producer Edition
2011/10/04 04:18:33
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Kev999, From my experiences with it, I would agree, it's a good value. I've put my old model through the mill and it just keeps on going. If Line6 is consistent with quality, I wouldn't be that hesitant. As for the UX, I've found two of those on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/Line-6-POD-Studio-UX1/dp/B001EKECAY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317714633&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Line-6-POD-Studio-UX2/dp/B001EKECC2/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1317714633&sr=8-3 Which of those would you recommend? Another one of my concerns is that with my old model, I've been using all sorts of presets for recording guitar, vocals, drums, etc. and I would hate to lose those. Is POD Farm too far removed from Gearbox? If not, you may have me sold.
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