The wheels have well and truly fallen off.........and are now back on again. FIXED

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JClosed
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 02:38:21 (permalink)
Sorry to hear you have troubles...

Most of the important things are said already. I can only add some advise based on my own experiences.

First of all - overclocking is a bad idea when you want to have a rock-solid system. It puts stress on various parts on the motherboard, and if some parts are just within tolerance it is easy to let them break down. The first thing to do when restoring everything in working order is to clock down to stock speed to make sure everything works within tolerance.  

My first suspect it the memory. Although memory can run at higer-than-designed speeds, it can break down under continued stress. Symptoms are just the things you experiencing now. Random crashes, strange readings, corrupted files and especially failing memory-intensive tasks  (like restoring a backup that uses large chunks of memory as buffer). Just run Memtest a few times to see if everything works fine.

The second suspect is the hard disk interface itself. Higher clock speeds can add to stress and misreadings (timing difficulties) so hardware data correction has to kick in much more often. This can lead to overload and failure of data correction - resulting in bad or corrupted files. If you have a second system I would try to connect the hard disk on that system and do a drive check. If the drive turns out good, you have a interface problem. Unfortunately these interfaces are hard-wired on your motherboard, so it is possible your motherboard has to be replaced (unless you find some PCI SATA card and use that - disabling the interface on your motherboard).

It is possible your hard drive is on the brink of failing. Just take a look at the smart values. If you see something suspicious, immediately stop using that drive! The best way to handle this is to buy a new drive and make a exact copy of the data and sectors on the suspicious drive to the new drive and ONLY use the new drive. That way you make a final HD crash less likely.

I could be your power supply. If the supply just give enough for a standard system, overclocking can put too much strain on the unit. Beware of cheap power supply's.  The advertised output power is most times a peak power, and not a continue power. In other words - those units can deliver peaks of the advertised power, but break down if this power has to be delivered as average..

Well - if those thing are not the culprit, than -indeed- Windows itself can do strange things. Especially updates can have unpredictable side effects on not-commonly used software (and the software we use is not very common in most house-holds I should say). I have worked with very large network systems (mainframe/UNIX/Windows mix), and an update was always something that had to be throughly tested before letting it installing "on the system". There were some very nasty "accidents" in the past that lead to these rules.

This is what came up in my mind in the short term. Good luck with your problem solving. I hope you are up and running in a short time...
#31
FastBikerBoy
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 03:17:51 (permalink)
Good morning all, thanks for all the reply and suggestions. I still have my fingers and everything else crossed, but it seems I'm back to rock solid, that'll hopefully continue & turn to rock solid.



The short answer is pwal, stonehedge & Jclosed hit the problem, it was the overclocking.

The longer answer is it was more specifically the RAM timings. I don't understand how a OC profile that has been running for four and half years suddenly becomes unstable but it has. In fact I backed it off a little 2 or 3 months ago because of highish temps when running stress testing after a graphics card change.

Before I finally gave up for the night Memtest failed at 202% and then hit a whole series of errors. So I dropped my RAM timings back a notch or two and then ran memtest overnight. This morning it was at 808% with no errors.

I've reloaded the chief suspects, the MIDISport drivers and fired up X1 and so far have been looping the project that was giving me all the trouble for over an hour, while I mess around with the MCU to my heart's content and so far it's still going. That's in comparison to crashing or BSOD within 4 or 5 mins yesterday.

Moral of the story is.......... suspect the obvious not what you think is the obvious. All the signs were there, every dump file for each BSOD was a different cause, it was a sudden change, etc etc. - I just got side tracked by the windows update and MIDIsport drivers thing because of past experience.

Anyway thanks to everyone that has helped, wished me well, etc and hopefully, I won't be back to this thread with my tail between my legs later.

Sorry to MS update for all those things I said about you yesterday.
post edited by FastBikerBoy - 2011/10/05 03:45:39
#32
John
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 03:23:28 (permalink)
Outstanding!

Best
John
#33
JClosed
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 04:29:52 (permalink)
Glad you are up and running again...

About running the hardware for some time and getting errors "suddenly" later on. Keep in mind some parts on the motherboard deteriorate over time.  These parts tolerances get narrower when aging. Especially electrolytic capacitors will "age" over time and can change in value. As these are often used to eliminate spikes and "hum" on power lines, this can lead to malfunction on intensely timing-depending devices like memory when asking more power than "designed".

Anyway - good to see everything is functioning again...
#34
Jonbouy
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 05:18:50 (permalink)
Sorry to MS update for all those things I said about you yesterday.


I'll bet I've called them worse before...

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#35
FastBikerBoy
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 05:30:23 (permalink)
Jonbouy



Sorry to MS update for all those things I said about you yesterday.


I'll bet I've called them worse before...


Of course I could have saved a lot of time yesterday and just asked the wife. She'd have told me I was wrong, as usual.
#36
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 05:30:32 (permalink)
While you're at it FBB, take the opportunity to clean out the inside of your box, get rid of any dust, re-seat all the boards, blow out all your heatsinks with compressed air, visually inspect your MOBO for signs of damaged components.

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#37
maximumpower
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 06:39:34 (permalink)

Nice! Glad you got it all working again.

BTW I was overclocking my old system and while I was keeping the CPU fairly cool, the RAM had heat sinks on them, the HD was running hot and so was the mobo. The mobo finally gave up!

In my case, a new computer case designed to keep things cool, made a big difference.

Keep it all cool!

Win 10 (64 bit), i7-2600k 3.4GHz , 8 GB RAM, SATA III (500GB SSD - System, 2TB WD Black - Data), Sonar Platinum x64, m-audio Profire 610

#38
Jonbouy
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 07:04:26 (permalink)
FastBikerBoy


Jonbouy



Sorry to MS update for all those things I said about you yesterday.


I'll bet I've called them worse before...


Of course I could have saved a lot of time yesterday and just asked the wife. She'd have told me I was wrong, as usual.


Oh, I can hear that.

I'd have got "Why do you have to fiddle with that thing all the time? It worked perfectly well before you started to try to make it perform better!"

(Oo-er!  That didn't come out right.)

"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles.
In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
#39
FastBikerBoy
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 07:37:49 (permalink)
Away from the studio now but I've just had the past 5 hours using X1 and looping it during breaks. So far so good, hasn't missed a beat.

I've even added the BCF back as an ACT controller with no issues. Looks like it's definitely fixed, so thanks everyone for all the help and support. It's appreciated.
#40
trimph1
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 07:42:59 (permalink)
Bristol_Jonesey


While you're at it FBB, take the opportunity to clean out the inside of your box, get rid of any dust, re-seat all the boards, blow out all your heatsinks with compressed air, visually inspect your MOBO for signs of damaged components.

This is darn good advise...I'm doing this every 6 months.

The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate.

Bushpianos
#41
guitartrek
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 08:00:51 (permalink)
Good to hear your're back in business. 
post edited by guitartrek - 2011/10/05 23:19:54
#42
Houndawg
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 09:36:01 (permalink)
Awesome, glad to hear you've got the problem under control. Fantastic support from the community here -- one of the best "features" of Sonar in my opinion.

JClosed nailed it... motherboard components can/do/will degrade over time. More importantly the silicon itself will actually degrade slightly over time and ultimately affect memory timings if you were already running at the edge. 
#43
LANEY
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 09:44:18 (permalink)
Cool that you solved it!
I was thinking about overclocking and now I think I will keep my system as is - Rock SOLID!

Rock On FBB!



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#44
jm24
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 10:24:23 (permalink)
Been OCing by 25% on the FSB for over a year. In the spring stuff got stupid. Used the Who Crashed util, and a bunch of other stuff.

I updated the BIOS. And "walla!"

What best I can figger is a win update, or a vid driver update, changed how a particular CPU instruction was called.

After the BIOS update running at 25% OC as before.

#45
pwal
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 13:50:34 (permalink)
glad you got it up, now back up everything before it dies completely! (i've a similar system to yours (p5/q6600), and i'm starting to consider upgrade possibilities...)

list of stuff
#46
stonehedge
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 15:58:05 (permalink)
Glad to hear you are back up and running. Make sure you do a scan with fix errors on your drives in case you did any saves during the ram problems. I found corrupt files when I had the bad ram chip.

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#47
tlw
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Re:The wheels have well and truly fallen off......... 2011/10/05 19:07:26 (permalink)
Glad things seem to be sorted. It's always a bit baffling why something that works fine for ages suddenly stops working fine. Hopefully that's the end of the problem.

I second the suggestion to scan the drives for errors - bad (corrupted) RAM can lead to corrupted saved files.

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#48
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