benjaminfrog
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[Investigating] X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made ...
I installed X1 Expanded 64 bit today and it rescanned my plugins on startup. Doing this wiped out the configuration I had done to have my 32 bit plugins open in jBridge rather than Bit Bridge. I have since discovered that rescanning existing plugins results in other changes I make to Plug-in Properties being lost as well. I still have X1 32 bit (not Expanded) installed and have verified that it retains changes after rescanning. I will report this as a bug.
post edited by Willy Jones [Cakewalk] - 2011/10/06 10:03:47
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Gregmang
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/05 21:26:15
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I think this might be related to how I now get the "you have too many plug-ins" message I now get on start up. I never got that before Expanded.
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benjaminfrog
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/05 21:30:22
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Hmm... I haven't gotten that message, but it sure seems that X1 handles plugins differently now.
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/05 21:45:04
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I haven't seen/heard of either of these issues and I use jBridge pretty heavily. Can you please report these via the problem reporter and send me a PM of the CWBRN #?
Also please be sure to include the version numbers of both 'PluginManager.exe' and 'VstScan.exe' from your ProgFiles/Cakewalk/Shared Utilities folder
Thanks,
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thomasabarnes
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/05 22:37:33
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I installed X1 Expanded 64 bit today and it rescanned my plugins on startup. Doing this wiped out the configuration I had done to have my 32 bit plugins open in jBridge rather than Bit Bridge.
This can be tricky. I don't have Expanded yet, but here's my experience with jBridge. Upon initial use of jBridge, it is recommended that after the jBridge utility is used to scan 32bit plug-ins, the jBridge files that are made as a result of the jBridge scan are placed in a folder of their own. Then, in SONAR, you point the Cakewalk plug in Manager to only scan the files in that jBridge folder. The path/s to the original 32bit plug ins folder should be removed from the scan path in the Cakewalk Plug In Manager. I know the Cakewalk Plug-In Manager can be used to specify to open a plug-in with BitBridge or with jBridge. However, if the installation of Expanded sets up SONAR to rescan plug ins in the Program Files (x86) directory (32bit plug-ins), that could cause plug-ins to be setup to be used by BitBridge, again. To remedy this, follow the recommendation for scanning plug-ins related to the initial use of jBridge (as pointed out above.) So my thought is that the situation you experience, which I quoted in my post above, is probably not buggy behavior, but maybe a result from a non-optimal Expanded installer. Just my.02 cents worth.
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/10/05 23:00:58
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dwcaldwell
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/05 23:03:56
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I use jBridge to bridge most of my 32-bit plugins.
The only thing I have ever done is to check the "Load using jBridge wrapper" checkbox in each plugin's VST Plug-In Properties dialog. I have never moved any of the jBridge files.
I have installed SONAR X1 Expanded and the PC4K Expander/Gate, rescanned my plugins using Cakewalk Plug-in Manager and have had no ill effects as far as I can tell. All of my plugin properties seem to be preserved including the use of the jBridge wrapper.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/05 23:17:00
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dwcaldwell
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/05 23:36:28
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It's weird how people's experiences can differ so much. One thing I did differently from the OP is that I never rescan at startup. I don't have enough patience for that!  And I don't know the OP's system specs. My system is almost identical to yours, Thomas, except my video card is older and I have a different audio interface.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/05 23:59:40
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If you do a full rescan it will wipe your VST settings. That is the meaning of a rescan and the behavior is as intended.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 00:09:29
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One thing I did differently from the OP is that I never rescan at startup.
Me neither. If he re-scans all plug-ins that is the source of his problem.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 00:14:26
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I have since discovered that rescanning existing plugins results in other changes I make to Plug-in Properties being lost as well. This comment is where Noel's post applies.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 00:27:27
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benjaminfrog:
You do know you can setup SONAR so that it wont scan plug-ins on startup?
That option is in Preferences under File> VST Settings.
In my first post in this thread I replied assuming this is how you had SONAR setup before you installed X1 Expanded.
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Amour013
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 03:29:13
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Unless I'm mistaken I believe that installing Expanded forces a rescan upon initial start-up. It did with my installation and didn't give me an option to skip it.
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mudgel
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 03:36:43
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I t gives you a choice to personalize your setup. It's a shame that it doesn't explain what that actually means because most people will say yes as the installer says.
SONAR will now personalize your setup.
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benjaminfrog
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 07:00:56
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
If you do a full rescan it will wipe your VST settings. That is the meaning of a rescan and the behavior is as intended.
Hi, Noel. I did this not infrequently prior to the Expanded upgrade and it never had this effect. In my original post I also mention that I have verified that it doesn't do this in X1 (not Expanded, X1c) 32 bit, which I still have on my system.
post edited by benjaminfrog - 2011/10/06 07:45:09
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benjaminfrog
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 07:03:42
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thomasabarnes
benjaminfrog:
You do know you can setup SONAR so that it wont scan plug-ins on startup?
That option is in Preferences under File> VST Settings.
In my first post in this thread I replied assuming this is how you had SONAR setup before you installed X1 Expanded.
Thanks for the tip. Actually, I don't have it set to scan on startup (that would take way too long). It did this automatically the first time I started Sonar after installing Expanded.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 08:50:10
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Do you have it set to scan failed plugins? By default SONAR performs a fast scan and checks if any new plugins have been added or plugins have been updated. AT this time no existing settings are changed.
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jbraner
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 09:18:30
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the jBridge files that are made as a result of the jBridge scan are placed in a folder of their own. Then, in SONAR, you point the Cakewalk plug in Manager to only scan the files in that jBridge folder. The path/s to the original 32bit plug ins folder should be removed from the scan path in the Cakewalk Plug In Manager This is not correct! SONAR works with jbridge, an dyou don't have to do anything except install jbridge, and then tick the box in your plugin setup (to use jbridge for this plugin). What you're talking about is for other (non SONAR) hosts and jbrdge.
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benjaminfrog
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 10:13:15
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
Do you have it set to scan failed plugins? By default SONAR performs a fast scan and checks if any new plugins have been added or plugins have been updated. AT this time no existing settings are changed.
Hi, Noel. No, it wasn't set to scan failed plugins, just existing ones.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 10:54:56
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What you're talking about is for other (non SONAR) hosts and jbrdge.
I guess I could have been more clear and said "upon the initial use of jBridger" instead of "upon the initial use of jBridge." Have you ever used jBridger? In step two of using jBridger, It is Highly recommended to "Create bridging files in a directory I specify." Like I said, "I know the Cakewalk Plug-In Manager can be used to specify to open a plug-in with BitBridge or with jBridge" (hence the build in support for jBridge)" Nevertheless, if he uses the jBridger method to scan his 32bit plug-ins, he can have plug-ins assigned to use jBridge mush faster (depending on how many 32bit plug-ins he has and wants to be assigned to use jBridge instead of BitBridge), than individually using the Cakewalk Plug-In Manager to assign each plug-in to use jBridge. If you can't understand that, well, that's your own matter. :) I still recommend using jBridger and jBridge because not only is it faster to use the jBridger method to assign plug ins to use jBridge, but becasue also the buttons to use the stepsequencer, automation write, synth solo, and the controller/surface ACT learn mode are readily accessible on the plug in's interface using jbridge. This is not the case when using BitBridge. And though I know using jBridge is not what you're questioning, I just threw this bit in becasue it's something good to know. :)
post edited by thomasabarnes - 2011/10/06 11:02:00
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thomasabarnes
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 11:15:51
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No, it wasn't set to scan failed plugins, just existing ones.
Probaly the thing that made you lose your settings was what mudgel mentioned above:
I t gives you a choice to personalize your setup. It's a shame that it doesn't explain what that actually means because most people will say yes as the installer says.
SONAR will now personalize your setup.
Doing that probably reset your Cakewalk Plug-In settings, causing you to start anew. Anway, in the future, if you have SONAR set to just re-scan failed plug-ins, and not to scan on startup, you probably wont run into the problem again where you lose your plug in settings. Sorry if I caused you any confusion.
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk]
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 11:36:43
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OK I investigated the matter.
The reason you are seeing this is because you had the "Re-Scan Existing Plugins" option checked. Basically there was a small change to the scanning process that would account for this behavior. When performing a full rescan of a plugin (as is the case here) X1E resets all plugin settings to defaults before doing the scan. This is why any custom settings for VST's that were made in Plugin Manager get reset to defaults. This includes custom settings for JBridge and Bitbridge.
This does NOT happen under default conditions when "Scan for VST Plugins on startup" is set. There is normally no good reason to check the "Re-Scan Existing Plugins" option so I'm not sure why you need to have that option set, since doing that is unnecessarily wasting application startup time scanning the same information for your existing plugins each time. Just leave it set at the default which is "Scan for VST Plugins on startup" and you will not run into this.
Although this was an intentional change, I acknowledge that this is a change in behavior, and we'll change it to retain prior settings when rescanning existing plugins. BTW, I don't know if anyone has noticed this but quick scan mode (the default "Scan for VST Plugins on startup") is about 3X faster now in X1. So its recommended that this option is left on. Its extremely lightweight and only does a scan if it detects changes on your system.
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benjaminfrog
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 11:51:00
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Noel Borthwick [Cakewalk
]
OK I investigated the matter.
The reason you are seeing this is because you had the "Re-Scan Existing Plugins" option checked. Basically there was a small change to the scanning process that would account for this behavior. When performing a full rescan of a plugin (as is the case here) X1E resets all plugin settings to defaults before doing the scan. This is why any custom settings for VST's that were made in Plugin Manager get reset to defaults. This includes custom settings for JBridge and Bitbridge.
This does NOT happen under default conditions when "Scan for VST Plugins on startup" is set. There is normally no good reason to check the "Re-Scan Existing Plugins" option so I'm not sure why you need to have that option set, since doing that is unnecessarily wasting application startup time scanning the same information for your existing plugins each time. Just leave it set at the default which is "Scan for VST Plugins on startup" and you will not run into this.
Although this was an intentional change, I acknowledge that this is a change in behavior, and we'll change it to retain prior settings when rescanning existing plugins. BTW, I don't know if anyone has noticed this but quick scan mode (the default "Scan for VST Plugins on startup") is about 3X faster now in X1. So its recommended that this option is left on. Its extremely lightweight and only does a scan if it detects changes on your system.
Thanks, Noel. I appreciate the follow-up.
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stevec
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 11:52:47
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...quick scan mode (the default "Scan for VST Plugins on startup") is about 3X faster now in X1. So its recommended that this option is left on. Nice.
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thomasabarnes
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Re:X1 Expanded - Rescanning existing plugins wipes out changes made to Plug-in Properties
2011/10/06 12:17:12
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BTW, I don't know if anyone has noticed this but quick scan mode (the default "Scan for VST Plugins on startup") is about 3X faster now in X1. So its recommended that this option is left on. Its extremely lightweight and only does a scan if it detects changes on your system. Thanks for the info, Noel.
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