Lost in how to pan an 8 track project.

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gat19g
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2011/10/09 02:35:46 (permalink)

Lost in how to pan an 8 track project.

I'm lost on how to pan this 8 track project. I tried but it still needs help. I was wondering (because i'm not that good at mixing) how could I do this? I have the following in my  track:
Trumpets (they play the melody so must be center)
Piano (accompanies melody)
Pizzcato Cellos
Expressive Cellos
Drums (mostly hi hat and base drum)
Men AH choir (for final chorus)
Sleigh Bells (only on last measure of song)
Detache Cellos

Thanks in advance!
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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Lost in how to pan an 8 track project. 2011/10/09 08:03:48 (permalink)
    Hi there gat19g I will give it a go.

    Drums in centre (maybe just to left eg 11 O Clock)
    Trumpets centre (maybe just to right eg 1 O Clock)
    The Cellos that are playing more of the bass part perhaps dead centre (Pitz or Detache)
    Expressive cellos perhaps left of centre eg 10 O Clock
    Pizz or Detache Cellos (not sure what that means) right of centre  eg 2 O Clock
    Piano to one side (left) eg 9 O Clock
    Sleigh Bells to right 3 O Clock) or centre if they are only at end.
    Men AH choir could also be say at 3 O Clock but I would try to spread them somehow eg reverb to take up the space fom hard left to right eg 8 O Clock to 4 O Clock. or delay then one side compared to other and pan the two choir sounds.

    These are just some ideas. Hope that helps.

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    gat19g
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    Re:Lost in how to pan an 8 track project. 2011/10/09 20:26:24 (permalink)
    Thank you for the help. My composition sounds a lot better.
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    PGShadow
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    Re:Lost in how to pan an 8 track project. 2011/10/18 00:07:27 (permalink)
    The question you have to ask yourself is, if you were to see this preformance live what would the stage set-up look like?
    hope that helps a little bit.
    peace.

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    Myuzishin
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    Re:Lost in how to pan an 8 track project. 2011/10/18 01:03:28 (permalink)
    I would keep the cellos tightly grouped, since they're all still cellos and the only real difference is the style of play. Possibly pan them and the male choir AHs to opposite sides so they counter each other.  Drums in the center, trumpets maybe offset to one side by just a bit, with the piano on the other.

    With only the few instruments, you have plenty of room to place things. Experiment with it and see where you get the best clarity. And don't feel that you need to use the entire field, either. Nobody listening is gonna say 'Man, he's only usin 60% L & R!'. With 6 or 7 instruments only, there's no reason to pan things at 100%. Keeping the instruments a bit tighter allows you to (if you choose) spacialize the mix with some ambience/reverb.

    Sleigh bells could go pretty much anywhere, but I would wonder if you were to set this up in real life would they be played by the drummer? If so, somewhere near center.

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    Rus W
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    Re:Lost in how to pan an 8 track project. 2011/10/18 01:45:10 (permalink)
    There's no concrete rule and I do agree with the suggestion of imagining live performance; however, just because something is sitting on one side of the stage, doesn't necessarily mean you'll hear it from that side. (ie: Guitar on left side of stage, but going into my right ear for it's coming out of the right monitor. (Of course, that would depend on where they are placed and your proximity to them.)

    I was at a function yesterday, and sat near a monitor near my left ear, but the monitor was angled away from where I was sitting and the sounds' sources were from different places.

    Band was on the right, choir was middle-right, but I heard everything from the left monitor. Same could be said if I were on the right and they were left, middle left. 

    Of course, this is with being plugged in as opposed to not; however, the live stage visual helps as you can get "stereo panning" (if desired) which is effective in its own right.

    Hard panning is effective if you want instruments to stand-out as pushing them towards the center blends them in with the other ones. (Rhythm guitars see this kind of panning frequently) 

    This also with when instruments are layered, but you still want to distinguish what is what.

    Two electric guitars are playing the same passage, but I won't know it's two unless they're spread out. Not widely-spread necessarily, but generally the are. (ie: an electric/acoustic, electric/acoustic either or both with chorus applied, etc ...)

    Layered bass tracks (Any trance/techno) sees a "thin" bass track/instrument doubled and hard panned underneath of the "thick" one to produce the desired effect.

    As the OP said, panning does make a piece sound better since what's playing can be distinguished and those with casual ears can't tell the difference between Center and Wide Stereo although the difference is quite distinguishable.

    It's akin to the Chorus effect which makes the instrument wide (or fat) as if there are many of the same playing at once (each slightly out-of-tune vs. the original signal)

    It's kind of neat when you double a track panning it out, then muting one of them or throwing in a Pan Delay. Messes with your ears which can be a good or bad thing depending on how it used.


    Someone suggested spreading the instruments out on my tracks and I just enjoy this little technique! 
    post edited by Rus W - 2011/10/18 01:47:49

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    #6
    Guitarhacker
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    Re:Lost in how to pan an 8 track project. 2011/10/18 08:36:27 (permalink)
    There are no hard and fast rules on panning...... 

    Some say the panning should reflect the on stage set up and location of the instruments and if you are composing a symphony, that would be a good thing to follow. 

    Other genre and styles..... it's pretty much put them where they sound good.


    I simply try to balance the sound stage.  

    Vox, bass, & drums are very often straight down the center. (very few exceptions to this for me)

    If I have a piano, it will be off to one side from 10% to 40%max. On the other side, I will have something else of similar weight (musically) panned about the same distance to balance it. B-3 or rhythm guitar. 

    BGV... depending on the number of singers will get spread across the stage right & left usually no more then 20%. 

    It's rare for me to have anything more than 50% to 100% right or left. that is extreme, but I have done that with 2 acoustic guitars which are mixed low and in the background to widen the perceived stereo image. 


    Even panning things 10% to 20% randomly without much though will work. I do tend to think it through a bit. If I had 2 cellos, playing slightly different from each other, I'd put them slightly opposite in the spread. I'd listen, and if it sounded OK... I'd leave them there. If not, if it sounded unbalanced, they'd require a bit more thought. 

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