Helpful ReplyFinally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know?

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Startngo
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2011/10/11 18:34:56 (permalink)

Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know?

So I've been using S8.5.3 PE for almost a year and I've finished all the projects I was working on in that version.  I am ready to upgrade to X1 PE from the boxed version I bought, lo, all these months ago. I have been perusing the forums to try to get educated on what I may run into while doing the upgrade, but would like to ask everyone what else I need to be aware of as I do this (besides what I list below).  My machine info is listed in my signature - the only thing different is I want to add the Tascam US1800 interface I just bought to use with X1.  I have already downloaded the X1c update to my thumb drive as my audio computer is NOT hooked up to the internet - don't need any headaches with virus protections and random cookies and malware.
 
So, here's what I've researched and read on these forums about upgrading snafus. These are the things I know about or are aware about:
1)Dimension Pro - I have 1.5 (I upgraded this in 8.5.3). May be an issue of downgrading to DP1.2 or running in "administrator mode" to get it to work in X1.
2)I upgraded my Guitar Rig 4LE (that came with 8.5.3) to a full pro version, GR4Pro, from NI's website. It's already an icon on my desktop as a stand alone program - so I should only have to rescan for VSTs after X1 is up and running to get it to work in X1.
3)I upgraded to the full version of Rapture 1.0 while in S8.5.3 and added some expansion packs - X1 should recognize this and ask me before it loads in with X1 - is that correct?
 
Anything else I've missed? 
One big question: Should I do all the X1 stuff before I install the Tascam US1800 drivers or vice versa?
 
FYI - I will NOT need or use any previous projects' files - I plan to basically start from scratch with new projects with this upgrade.
 
Thank you in advance for any info you can offer or point me to the right forum topic.
I am, still, after all, a newbie to this stuff...
--Startngo

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#1
StarTekh
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/11 18:43:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
startngo: this is what i did..
install'd new os drive and data drive... installd OS. updated Chipset drivers Video drivers and Audio drivers and then installd
x-1 and the updates, to date this has been very solid 1 crash sence
orignal install

Note: Dont you  love tracking with the NS-10's
#2
vladasyn
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/11 20:30:32 (permalink)
Um... you need to know that the program is suck... that pretty much says it all. With that said, good luck.
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webbs hill studio
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/11 22:01:14 (permalink)
So I've been using S8.5.3 PE for almost a year and I've finished all the projects I was working on in that version.  I am ready to upgrade to X1 PE from the boxed version I bought



hi mate:i`m in the same boat-i also bought X1 6 months ago but havent upgraded due to the (perceived)teething problems,GUI changes and nothing to improve my application.You`ve obviously done your homework but your listed snafu`s don`t exist in 8.5.3  and was wondering what specifically,in your application, you can`t do in 8.5.3 that requires X1? 
 
  
#4
Splat
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/11 22:01:49 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Advice - Run it "as administrator" in Windows 7.

> Um... you need to know that the program is suck... that pretty much says it all. With that said, good luck.

vladasyn, that's borderline trolling. You may have had a bad experience but I haven't and many other's haven't.
If you had a bad experience which you wish to tell people about that's one thing (and I suggest you do it in another thread - keep to the topic), stating it like this is another. NB If you've never run X1C then your opinion is NO LONGER relevant.
 
NB - My View - X1C is pretty stable, no big issues - but wait for X1D if you feel you want to come to the party late.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2011/10/11 22:10:01

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#5
Jimbo 88
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/11 22:49:47 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I had a tough go at it when i switched.  It was hard to find things at 1st.  There are still things i think I'm faster at in 8.5,  but all in all I'm glad i upgraded.  My advise is to be patient and keep the manual close at hand...
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webbs hill studio
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/11 23:43:16 (permalink)
"There are still things i think I'm faster at in 8.5,  but all in all I'm glad i upgraded."


hi jimbo-am curious why you were glad with the upgrade-was it speed,performance,stability,layout etc or were there more and better tools for you as a composer?
most of my work is live multitracking and i`m struggling to see any benefits for me?
anyone?

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#7
gray36
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 00:30:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I also upgraded from box to X1 from 8.5.3 PE. I called tech before installing, and it even says in your welcome book, that if you have already upgraded Dim. Pro. to 1.5, then all you really need to do is load the first disc, I have most of the extra content, and didn't make a difference about a couple demo projects. That's totally up to you, but in my case I installed first disc, all went well, even prompted to register Guitar Rig 4 LE, even though I also have Pro installed. It did everything for me, Put Dim. Pro in right place, even Guitar Rig Pro 4 and LE, everything was imported into X1 from 8.5.3, was painless, and you don't hear that much! But if you need the last disc, good luck, you will be in registry, and it's not worth it for a couple extra sounds, and demo proj. One of the easiest 1 disc install in my life, then installed X1c update, and not one crash yet. Just thought I would share my experience, because it was laying around a week or 2 before I got the courage to try, good luck!

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#8
Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 04:23:47 (permalink)
vladasyn


Um... you need to know that the program is suck... that pretty much says it all. With that said, good luck.


If you insist on trolling this forum, at least try to do it with cogent English.

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#9
webbs hill studio
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 04:54:13 (permalink)
hey bristol-jonesy,not trying to pick a fight-the quote was provocative but did you read this by him: Minding the title of the thread, the question is, “What do I need to know?” Just because someone did not have bad experience (which is subjective), does not mean everyone should have the same opinion. It is not even interesting to note that negative experience classified as trolling. What do one need to know before upgrading? That the workflow got worse, not better. That one should forget what they used do and learn new motor skills and habits. That many useful functions were taken out. That it require 2 monitors because it is demanding on the real-estate. The soft synth windows being sucked in to main window and minimized to a point of being unreadable. That it is very uncomfortable program and makes your hand hurt due to strains of using mouse. That you need to read a manual to figure out how to copy and paste a clip. That it is not stable and freezes any time it wants. That it does not create new tracks and you have to perform 5 clicks before you can set the IOs. That step sequencer is pathetic and ridiculous. That Staff view has no note length selection option. That there is no more copy/paste or undo/redo buttons. And Cakewalk is going to continue selling you unfinished deficient product and then charge you for an upgrades. They fixed some bugs and now we have to pay again to get what was supposed to work in the first place. It has been like that for years. There same bugs in X1 I have seen in Sonar 4. And every time we forced to pay more we hoping that it will finally work, but it never will because the scam is to sell us more upgrades. So go ahead, keep buying upgrades. They have much more bugs to fix.  
i`ve been in a lot of trouble in a few places where english was not my 1st language and he may have learnt his english from this forum or god forbid the coffee house and there is an element of truth in what he`s saying-uneloquently-benefit of the doubt-he`s obviously pissed off and needs to vent and this is a forum after all-warts and all-cheers




#10
Jimbo 88
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 09:15:37 (permalink)
webbs hill studio


"There are still things i think I'm faster at in 8.5,  but all in all I'm glad i upgraded."


hi jimbo-am curious why you were glad with the upgrade-was it speed,performance,stability,layout etc or were there more and better tools for you as a composer?
most of my work is live multitracking and i`m struggling to see any benefits for me?
anyone?

My answer is going to be scewed a little because I've been working with Expanded the last week.  Expanded does seem more stable and "tighter".  The MusicXML inclusion helps me out big time.  I work 90% composing and 10% (maybe less) tracking and mixing.  The implimentation of tools in X1 took me a while to get use to,  but i'm getting to really like it.  X1 is more geared towards function keys and keybindings as opposed to using the mouse,  which personally is better for the way I work.  I'm not tracking like you so perhaps I'm not a source for your situation.
 
In defense of Bristol Jonesey,  I'm in his camp.  There have been a bunch a "trolls" who post things like "It sucks" who do not ask for help or mention anything specific.  Just seems to me they are posting just to trash and i'm not convinced they are honest.  Certainly X1 had (has) its issues.
#11
mudgel
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 11:21:49 (permalink)
What do you need to know before up grading to X1.

Not everyone had a good run. For me that meant a completely unusable X1 until X1C was released. Only Since X1C have I had the opportunity to try and learn the new way of doing things it imposes on you.

Thankfully Benstat and Panup (SONAR users on this forum) have developed add on tools that enhance the user experience far in advance that which Cakewalk had intended for its users. These addons are significant helpers without which X1C wouldn't even be on my computer.
In the time beween december 2010 when X1 was released and X1C was released I have bought and learned how to use Presonus Studio One Pro, Reaper (now V4.1) and Protools 9HD. I continue to use SONAR 8.5.3 for anything important. I'm finding it harder to learn X1/unlearn 8.5 than it has been to learn all these other DAWS. For me that's quite a realisation considering that I have been an exclusive Cakewalk DAW user since about Cakewalk 5 or 6; round about 17 years of constant use upgrading every version except I stopped at Cakewalk 8 and picked up with SONAR 3PE.

I recently bought SONAR Expanded because I wanted to continue supporting Cakewalk thinking a smaller quite specific release would have better quality control and no new issues but as usual Expanded has broken a few things that were working OK before eg. aim Assist just disengages - a side effect of a new function added to it by creating a change in browser behaviour.

X1C is certainly stable for me now and Expanded seems to make it run smoother still but this is inexplicable as Cakewalk say there has been no changes other than those necessary for Expanded. ie no bug fixes of X1C issues.

I can't really see myself staying with SONAR other than going back to 8.5.

For me it's all academic now as illness has forced an unplanned early retirement on me But were I to continue professionally I'd stay with SONAR 8.5 for current jobs, play with X1 for fun/headache and develop my skills in Reaper 4.1 and Studio One Pro which is soon to have version 2 released from which I expect big things. Protools 9HD gives me industry compatability across the board which for the cost of admission was a no brainer.

For me the Cakewalk experience will come to an end when SONAR 8.5 can no longer deliver what I need from a workflow point of view. as it is I am already getting more and more comfortable and familiar with the other DAWS already mentioned so that by the the time version 2 of S1 Pro comes around I doubt I'll be using anythign extra unless a specific and importatn feature forces me to go elsewhere.

The bottom line is that there are lots of ways to skin this beast and most DAWS will get the job done. Each seem to have strengths and weaknesses. If it works for you use it.

I'd definitely try the demo before I bought X1 but if you already have it, go ahead and install it. It may just suit you down to the ground or it may not. It will only take an installation to find out.  All the best.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#12
Startngo
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 11:40:03 (permalink)
CakeAlexS - Thanks for reprimanding Vladasyn, his comment was indeed unhelpful and uncalled for.  Thanks about the Windows 7/Administrator correction - I missed that it didn't pertain to XP.  I am coming to the party late, but it was mainly to finish my (then) current 8.5.3 projects. I'm starting a new project in Dec and decided it was now time to upgrade, since most people appear to be either happy or tolerant of the new version now that the 'c' upgrade is out.  That gives me a month and a half to get in there and get dirty with it before the band shows up...
 
I marked all the comments that were helpful- so thank you guys who offered suggestions.
 
Webbs Hill Studio - I liked 8.5.3 a lot and bought books and videos to help me learn more about it and be better and quicker at using it.  Ultimately, just getting in there and working on it and trying many things was the best teacher for me to get used to it.  And I'm sure I can do it again in X1. Just like learning a new instrument - you already have the fundamentals, it's just learning how to you shape your fingers, hands, mouth, etc. to get a musical sound out of it and you practice it to get better.  I feel the same way with any new software I install. (Well, maybe not using my mouth to operate it except maybe to curse it from time to time... )  But ultimately, in technology, especially software, you have to upgrade or be left in the dust.  I'm still using XP, but Microsoft doesn't support it any longer and I doubt they will work on any more service packs or upgrades...just general virus protection updates.  When I buy a new computer, I'll upgrade to whatever the current Windows system will be at that time, bugs and all.  Cakewalk no longer makes upgrades, new instruments, new plug-ins, etc. for S8.5 and I am actually excited to try some of the new features in Expanded - can't do that in 8.5.  Technology moves on and we have to move with it or never be able to take advantage of the possibilities of new features and workflow and improved sound. I don't know of ANY software out there in the last 10 years that comes out of the gate without some kind of update to fix or improve the first release - it's the nature of the beast (technology).  So...I just want to be current and I want to take advantage of the new stuff that will be coming out for X1 in the next few years. $99 was actually not that much for such a huge upgrade, in my opinion, and the $49 for each of the most recent upgrades is reasonable, too, I think.  At least they are giving us the option of adding Expanded or Z3TA +2.1 or the PC4-K expander/gate if we want it - that's still cheaper than a lot of plug-ins out there.
Also defending Vladasyn's comment, while noble, doesn't explain the fact that I am a new user ready to upgrade looking for help and instead of giving a list of things he is having trouble with (like you did in your second post), Vladasyn just gave a blanket, hateful, unhelpful opinion. Believe me, I know all the problems that have been stated in the forums and beat to death - another reason I waited to upgrade. But I have also read many, many posts where people love it and don't have the same problems others are facing.  And CW has had 3 upgrade fixes (a,b,c) in less than a year PLUS added new features! I think they are listening and making the effort. If you go to the Protools forums, you will see that it is not perfect either and it is the 'so-called' insdutry standard!  (A 'standard' that had very weak Midi implementation from what I've read.)
 
Gray36 - I am really hoping my experience turns out to be like yours!!  I'll let you know!
 
Bristol-Jonesey - Vladasyn didn't need cogent English to get his point across, I knew what he meant.  Besides, English doesn't make sense compared to a lot of foreign languages. I assume English is not his first language, based on his name, but I could be wrong there. But the hatefulness of the comment was unneeded.
 
Thanks guys - my plan is to upgrade this weekend. 
One question that I only got one answer: Should I install drivers for my Audio interface before I install X1 or after? Anyone have a good/bad experience either way?
 
--Startngo
 

Sonar 8.5.3, Windows XP SP3, Dell Vostro 400 Intel Core2 Duo 2.66 GHz Pocessor - 4GB RAM - Two 250 GB SATA HD(7200 RPM) - 256 MB Nvidia GeForce 8600GTS - Acer 21.5 WS LCD monitor - Dell 19" CRT monitor, Emu 0404 PCI interface, Mackie Satellite FW interface, Mackie HR824 monitors, Yamaha NS-10M monitors, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Poly-800, Roland XV-3080...
#13
Startngo
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 11:45:19 (permalink)
StarTekh


startngo: this is what i did..
install'd new os drive and data drive... installd OS. updated Chipset drivers Video drivers and Audio drivers and then installd
x-1 and the updates, to date this has been very solid 1 crash sence
orignal install

Note: Dont you  love tracking with the NS-10's

Thanks for the advice, StarTekh!
I've been using the NS-10's for over 20 years - my ears are used to them.  Just upgraded to the Mackies last year - mainly to hear more low end and not-so-hyped highs.  Now I A/B my mixes between the two and always have an ipod handy to check it with ear buds after the reduction to MP3.

Sonar 8.5.3, Windows XP SP3, Dell Vostro 400 Intel Core2 Duo 2.66 GHz Pocessor - 4GB RAM - Two 250 GB SATA HD(7200 RPM) - 256 MB Nvidia GeForce 8600GTS - Acer 21.5 WS LCD monitor - Dell 19" CRT monitor, Emu 0404 PCI interface, Mackie Satellite FW interface, Mackie HR824 monitors, Yamaha NS-10M monitors, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Poly-800, Roland XV-3080...
#14
mudgel
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 11:55:43 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Seeing as the drivers are made available to your system rather than SONAR specifically I'd install them before hand.

Not based on any specific experience rather it seems logical as any program should be able to access your audio device through the driver/s and that's independant of SONAR or any DAW software. All the best
 
Also I don't remember reading it but after installing SONAR X1 make sure to install the X1 C update before running SONAR for the first time. X1C contains all the previous updates and quick fixes. Waiting until you have installed the X1C update before you run SONAR for the first time is not mandatory but from previous tech advice I've read on the forum it's the best way to go.
 
So install X1, then the X1C update then run SONAR for the first time. You'll be asked if you want to transfer your 8.5 settings over. Say yes and when asked to personalize your settings say yes as well for the best installation experience. All the best

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#15
Startngo
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 11:57:37 (permalink)
Mudgel,
Thanks for the informative, well-thought-out, and helpful advice.  Like most people, I'm sure I will keep 8.5 on my computer to go back to, if needed.
I also have the entry level of Studio One - bought it when they had that great deal on it earlier this year - I haven't installed it yet, but it looks promising.  Once they get a few more years under their belt, their list of features and add-ons will be stiff competition for any DAW out there - I like what I've seen on their website and read in their forums.  And if I were to switch to Studio One - I would just have to bite the bullet and buy their new 16.4.2 Live Mixer - can't afford that right now, but it truly seems to be da bomb and perfect integration with their software.
 
Thanks again for your input, I do appreciate it.
--Startngo

Sonar 8.5.3, Windows XP SP3, Dell Vostro 400 Intel Core2 Duo 2.66 GHz Pocessor - 4GB RAM - Two 250 GB SATA HD(7200 RPM) - 256 MB Nvidia GeForce 8600GTS - Acer 21.5 WS LCD monitor - Dell 19" CRT monitor, Emu 0404 PCI interface, Mackie Satellite FW interface, Mackie HR824 monitors, Yamaha NS-10M monitors, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Poly-800, Roland XV-3080...
#16
mudgel
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 12:06:08 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I have the Studio Live 24.4.2 and it da bomb. absolute genius device and so much bang for the buck. While Studio1Pro is lacking on some esoteric features especially in MIDI department I don't think we're going to be waiting years. I expect big things from version 2 which is rumored to be coming out very soon and by the time we get to 2.5 I think serious competition is what it will be offering. even now I haven't found a DAW that can compete with its gapless audio engine.
Anyway get on with that X1 installation.

Mike V. (MUDGEL)

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#17
SvenArne
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 18:44:26 (permalink)
mudgel

For me it's all academic now as illness has forced an unplanned early retirement on me

 
What the hell man? I don't remember you saying anything about an illness in the other thread, I thought you were just moving out back! Please get well!





#18
StarTekh
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/12 20:21:23 (permalink)
startngo: you can also install along side 8.5.. and i auctualy did it
but.. now only use the drives as i told you with win7 32b both are
near perfect..

as for your NS-10's keep well in mind that they are tracking mointors, not ment to be used as real playback, i use JBL 4412's
for that, do not over boost the bass this will destroy the woofers !!
mine won best rock album years back so i protect them, using a
light bulb as a soft limitor, id be happy to give you info on that!
post edited by StarTekh - 2011/10/12 20:29:39
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Startngo
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Re:Finally ready to upgrade to X1. What do I need to know? 2011/10/13 13:03:47 (permalink)
StarTekh


startngo: you can also install along side 8.5.. and i auctualy did it
but.. now only use the drives as i told you with win7 32b both are
near perfect..

as for your NS-10's keep well in mind that they are tracking mointors, not ment to be used as real playback, i use JBL 4412's
for that, do not over boost the bass this will destroy the woofers !!
mine won best rock album years back so i protect them, using a
light bulb as a soft limitor, id be happy to give you info on that!

Thanks, StarTekh.
Yeah, I know about the NS10s. I run them flat and I never push them very hard - they are very close to my head, so no need to crank them. That's why I bought the Mackies - I can push them hard and loud and they have better bass response and internal overdrive protection.
I already know about the lightbulb limiter - a friend of mine turned me on (no pun intended) to that method years ago, but I never crank mine, so I don't worry about them - over 30 years old and still rockin'!  I bought them used from a studio in Nashville back in 1990 - you could get them real cheap back then since they were everywhere.  The real ones, like I have, are more expensive now. 
Thanks for the tips and advice!
--Startngo

Sonar 8.5.3, Windows XP SP3, Dell Vostro 400 Intel Core2 Duo 2.66 GHz Pocessor - 4GB RAM - Two 250 GB SATA HD(7200 RPM) - 256 MB Nvidia GeForce 8600GTS - Acer 21.5 WS LCD monitor - Dell 19" CRT monitor, Emu 0404 PCI interface, Mackie Satellite FW interface, Mackie HR824 monitors, Yamaha NS-10M monitors, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Poly-800, Roland XV-3080...
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