jbow
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My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
I am looking at the Yamaha DTX 520K or DTX 530K. D you have any thoughts on electronic drum kits under 1k? The more under the better but those DTX have a nice snare with great side hits. I also want to be able to use the HH pedal and bass drum pedal with the Alesis control pad... any ideas I should consider? I have also thought about a TAMA acoustic kit but don't want to go to the trouble of micing them and also I only get one sound... still I am open to opinions since I am NOT a drummer at all. Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Jonbouy
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 11, 11 8:42 PM
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I'd go the Acoustic kit route for a beginner to learn technique, but then I'm a stick weilding primate. I'd choose Pearl over Tama for value on a budget kit but that's based on prices this side of the Atlantic, and probably still out of some kind of bias because I used to get benefits from saying that kind of thing about Pearl drums. Did I mention Pearl drums? As for one sound, I'm just going to say 'drum replacement' techniques. As for miking I'm going to say keep it simple and get a pair of matched overhead condensers and start from there. Add an AKG D112 for the kick and a Shure SM57 for the snare and perfect your technique with those 4 mics and you will have already solved the mystery that some people agonise over for years.
post edited by Jonbouy - October 11, 11 8:49 PM
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jbow
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 11, 11 9:25 PM
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Thanks Jon, I aready have an SM-57 and an MXL 604 small conderser, so I'm halfway there on the mics... so I'll take a look. Also I would have to get mutes for the drums and cymbals. if I get acoustic drums. Pearl... those are those newfangled drums right? They still make Ludwig right? J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Jonbouy
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 11, 11 10:03 PM
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Also I would have to get mutes for the drums and cymbals. if I get acoustic drums. This is the one argument in favour of electronic kits of course.
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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RobertB
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 11, 11 10:05 PM
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While I can appreciate Jonbouy's viewpoint, I am going to advocate the electronic set. For one, acoustic drums are loud, and there's no getting around it. The neighbors, and the neighbors neighbors will know when she is playing. On the other hand, I can play my e-drums at 1AM, with the headphones on, and not bother anybody. I have an Alesis DM6 kit($500). It is a complete kit (the Explorer does not include the kick pedal), and while it doesn't feel like an acoustic kit, it is quite usable. The built in sounds are fair, velocity only affects volume, with no timbral changes. I use it to trigger EZ Drummer, Session Drummer 2, and other soft synths, via MIDI. Here, it really shines. For your granddaughter, I might suggest: Pretty much any e-drums in the $500-$1000 range. Assuming she already has a laptop or PC, Music Creator 6, Sonar's surprisingly powerfull entry level program. Session Drummer 2($10 download). EZ Drummer-price may vary. A suitable soundcard/interface w/ASIO drivers. A pair of decent headphones. She'll love you for it, her parents will love you, and the neighbors won't have anybody to blame.
My Soundclick Page SONAR Professional, X3eStudio,W7 64bit, AMD Athlon IIx4 2.8Ghz, 4GB RAM, 64bit, AKAI EIE Pro, Nektar Impact LX61,Alesis DM6,Alesis ControlPad,Yamaha MG10/2,Alesis M1Mk2 monitors,Samson Servo300,assorted guitars,Lava Lamp Shimozu-Kushiari or Bob
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57Gregy
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 11, 11 11:06 PM
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For cheap, you could get a set like my brother bought. An OSP DD-502 Mk II. $300. It works. Hasn't broke yet. Well, one of the plastic cymbal mounting nuts did from an errant strike. Thank goodness Mike did it and not me.
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Dave Modisette
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 12, 11 10:09 AM
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I owned a DTX kit for a while. Got rid of it as soon as I could. It was hard to configure.
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bapu
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 12, 11 10:15 AM
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Mod Bod I owned a DTX kit Bapu for a while. Got rid of it as soon as I could. It was hard to configure. Duh! Ask Mooch.
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jbow
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 12, 11 12:42 AM
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I owned a DTX kit for a while. Got rid of it as soon as I could. It was hard to configure. Did you make a switch or just go back to a sequencer or what? I am also considering the Alesis kits, they seem to be cheaper for what you get. Also I didn't mention, they will be here and I will use them too. I will definately make sure the pedals come with the set, that makes a big difference... well probably a hundred dollar difference. J\Thanks, J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jackn2mpu
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 13, 11 9:12 AM
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Mod Bod I owned a DTX kit for a while. Got rid of it as soon as I could. It was hard to configure. I feel your pain on that. Have a DTXM12 setup for drum stuff when I don't want to tick off the neighbors. Usual Yamaha affair: great sound and build but the programming is an absolute nightmare. If I had the room I'd get a Roland electronic kit - that's what Neil Peart of Rush uses in his setup.
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jackn2mpu
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 13, 11 9:19 AM
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RobertB While I can appreciate Jonbouy's viewpoint, I am going to advocate the electronic set. For one, acoustic drums are loud, and there's no getting around it. The neighbors, and the neighbors neighbors will know when she is playing. On the other hand, I can play my e-drums at 1AM, with the headphones on, and not bother anybody. I have an Alesis DM6 kit($500). It is a complete kit (the Explorer does not include the kick pedal), and while it doesn't feel like an acoustic kit, it is quite usable. The built in sounds are fair, velocity only affects volume, with no timbral changes. I use it to trigger EZ Drummer, Session Drummer 2, and other soft synths, via MIDI. Here, it really shines. For your granddaughter, I might suggest: Pretty much any e-drums in the $500-$1000 range. Assuming she already has a laptop or PC, Music Creator 6, Sonar's surprisingly powerfull entry level program. Session Drummer 2($10 download). EZ Drummer-price may vary. A suitable soundcard/interface w/ASIO drivers. A pair of decent headphones. She'll love you for it, her parents will love you, and the neighbors won't have anybody to blame. Allow me to add something to this: a powerful computer and audio interface so you can minimize latency which is important to any musician, but more so to a drummer, and in particular a beginning drummer. My Sonar computer isn't the fastest thing on the block so when I'm using my DTXM12 to trigger drums on it (instead if using the Yamaha's built-in sounds) I really have to watch how fast I play so I don't overrun what the computer can do (and not lose my timing).
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 13, 11 9:24 AM
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Jonbouy I'd go the Acoustic kit route for a beginner to learn technique, but then I'm a stick weilding primate. I'd choose Pearl over Tama for value on a budget kit but that's based on prices this side of the Atlantic, and probably still out of some kind of bias because I used to get benefits from saying that kind of thing about Pearl drums. Did I mention Pearl drums? As for one sound, I'm just going to say 'drum replacement' techniques. As for miking I'm going to say keep it simple and get a pair of matched overhead condensers and start from there. Add an AKG D112 for the kick and a Shure SM57 for the snare and perfect your technique with those 4 mics and you will have already solved the mystery that some people agonise over for years. I just knew it.... I just knew it... You see, I'm a TAMA man. ;-) I like the fact that TAMA's parent company actually owns all the factories that make their drums. It is well known that Pearl provides lots of incentives for sales presenters to favor the product over here as well. :-)
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PGShadow
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 13, 11 2:31 PM
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Gateway FX/intel i7-860/ 8gig DDR3/ 1TB Drive/Win7-64/ Sonar 8.5Pro/X1Pro/X2Pro w/QF308/Tascam US-1641/Yamaha HS-50 Monitor's & HS-10sub/ Digitech GnX3 guitar processor/ Digitech BP100 Bass processor/ART DSP II preamp/ MXL 770 &990/ Yamaha RM50 Drum Brain,Custom Mesh head Kit/ rack "O" toyz......And ONE BIG VIsa bill
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Jonbouy
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 13, 11 3:55 PM
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mike_mccue I just knew it.... I just knew it... You see, I'm a TAMA man. ;-) I like the fact that TAMA's parent company actually owns all the factories that make their drums. It is well known that Pearl provides lots of incentives for sales presenters to favor the product over here as well. :-) Well a girl has to earn a living you know...  and Jim at Pearl UK at the time was one of the best salesmen I've ever met... Seriously though I wouldn't know the difference between the two these days. I'd have to go with something I know like a little vintage Gretsch kit if I was buying now. I did have quite a large Tama 'Imperial Star' setup in the late '70's back when 'concert' toms we're all the rage. You know the ones where they took any notion of a resonant bottom head away and charged the same money. This was probably the best looking kit I ever had with all it's real copper finish, but I never got it sounding how I wanted. It was very well made and well finished stuff though. Although I have no bias today I still rate Pearl as being able to offer some really great sounding good value in that entry level range. One of my favourtie studio snares was a cheap Pearl one because it was such a chameleon and quick to tune into a wide range of sounds. Basically because being a cheapo one it had fewer lugs which also had coarser threads on the tension rods. Although I will admit to having to treat those threads to an occasional squirt of 'Spraymount' to stop them detuning themselves during the length of a session.
post edited by Jonbouy - October 13, 11 4:00 PM
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jbow
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 14, 11 1:35 PM
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Allow me to add something to this: a powerful computer and audio interface so you can minimize latency which is important to any musician, but more so to a drummer, and in particular a beginning drummer. My Sonar computer isn't the fastest thing on the block so when I'm using my DTXM12 to trigger drums on it (instead if using the Yamaha's built-in sounds) I really have to watch how fast I play so I don't overrun what the computer can do (and not lose my timing). I am sorry, I am not sure what you are referring to. Are you just talking about recording or are you talking about a USB electronic drum kit or is this a potential problem with any electronic kit in standalone mode just playing? Also, Mod and Jack thanks for the heads up on the DTX programming. I will look closer at the Alesis DM 6 and DM 8 (I think there is a DM 8... whatever is a step up from the DM 6). I am not interested in a USB set because adding a computer to it would be, from my experience, asking for trouble. Jon... I was kidding about the Pearl/Ludwig thing... if Pearl is good enough for Bobby Caldwell... Pearl is good enough for ANYONE. Tama just has a kit that comes with everything for around 600 bucks. Noah's Ark played our "senior prom" with Bobby Caldwell on drums, Buddy Richardson (White Witch) on lead guitar, Rodney Justo (ARS) on vocals ans 2nd guitar, Ronny Elliott on bass. Needless to say they were incredible. Bobby went on to play on Johnny Winter And Live!; Rick Derringer's "All American Boy". He formed Captian Beyond and Armageddon, played percussion on the ABB Band's Live Fillmore East concerts/album... and much more, a truly great drummer. What a time the late 1960s and early 1970s were.You'll see Bobby playing Pearl kits in this video. It is an interesting tribute to him http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkM81FBxCyg&feature=related I will let you know what I wind up buying. Thanks for the help. J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jackn2mpu
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 14, 11 2:54 PM
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jbow Allow me to add something to this: a powerful computer and audio interface so you can minimize latency which is important to any musician, but more so to a drummer, and in particular a beginning drummer. My Sonar computer isn't the fastest thing on the block so when I'm using my DTXM12 to trigger drums on it (instead if using the Yamaha's built-in sounds) I really have to watch how fast I play so I don't overrun what the computer can do (and not lose my timing). I am sorry, I am not sure what you are referring to. Are you just talking about recording or are you talking about a USB electronic drum kit or is this a potential problem with any electronic kit in standalone mode just playing? Doesn't matter how the electronic drumkit brain is hooked up to the computer - USB or regular MIDI. If you don't have a powerful enough computer that can run at low latency when you're recording (especially drums) you're going to hear the sound out of time when you play the drumkit. Actually, you don't have to be recording to hear the latency if you're using the drum sounds on the computer instead of what comes out of the electronic kit. Your best bet would be to monitor direct the sounds produced by the electric drumkit when recording and not use monitoring coming off of Sonar (or any recording program). This doesn't just extend to drums but to recording any instrument. The reason it can be more prevalent on drums is because there's so much more going on with drums than with any other instrument out there.
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Jonbouy
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 14, 11 3:55 PM
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"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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jbow
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 14, 11 8:28 PM
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Thanks I enjoyed that. You are welcome... drummers don't get enugh of the spotlight. I didn't realize you are a drummer until recently. I will make it a point to look at the Pearl kits when I go to the store. Probably Sam Ash. We have them and Guitar Center here and some smaller stores. I always make them meet online store prices. GC has some electronic drumkits I have never heard of... but after this thread I will either go with an Alesis DM kit or a Pearl or TAMA acoustic kit and dampen the sound. I would really prefer an acoustic kit but the idea of an 8yo playing them upstairs gives me pause. Then again my parents never said a word about my Silvertone 1485 amp (that is the one with 6L6s and 6x10s... I used a VOX "Y" cord, didn't have a switching box then and plugged into both channels, that amp actually had two output transformers... it was like two Silvertone Twin Twelves in one head cabinet.. a strange but LOUD amp. J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 14, 11 8:44 PM
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A great gift you can give your son grand daughter can be teaching him to play with a light technique. I was inspired by my mom's taste in music to strive to play a trap kit as quietly as possible. When ever she heard a drummer play quietly she would point out their skill and taste. I remember that now when I play with people and try to leave lots of space for sharing. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - October 17, 11 10:49 AM
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agape
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 14, 11 9:06 PM
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My church has an older Alesis kit. Ten plus years and still going strong. Not sure about the newer ones but the older one we have is easy to make repairs on should a trigger break and the sound mod is great as well. No missed hits or double triggers like some of the other products I have used or tried. Roland has always been the best from what I understand (haven't had the chance to try any other high end stuff though) but at there prices they should be. Alesis seems to be a good choice.
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craigb
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 15, 11 6:55 PM
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If electric drums had been around when I was young I might have really learned to play. To be able to wear headphones while banging away (even if it's 3am) and not disturbing anyone is very cool! My V-Drum set is great for stress relief. I bought the basic set then slowly added other pieces and upgraded the snare. I use it mostly for fun or to create MIDI drumlines that I then use to trigger better sounding samples. The SPD-20 was the final touch even if, ironically, it was the first thing I had bought many years earlier. I use it to add those required, but missing elements (like a cowbell  ). Here's a large picture of my set: My V-Drums
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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jbow
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 15, 11 8:38 PM
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Doesn't matter how the electronic drumkit brain is hooked up to the computer - USB or regular MIDI. If you don't have a powerful enough computer that can run at low latency when you're recording (especially drums) you're going to hear the sound out of time when you play the drumkit. Actually, you don't have to be recording to hear the latency if you're using the drum sounds on the computer instead of what comes out of the electronic kit. Your best bet would be to monitor direct the sounds produced by the electric drumkit when recording and not use monitoring coming off of Sonar (or any recording program). This doesn't just extend to drums but to recording any instrument. The reason it can be more prevalent on drums is because there's so much more going on with drums than with any other instrument out there. Wouldn't I just record them through my Octa-Capture and rely on it's low latency? Or, like you mentioned, use direct monitoring? If I use some softsynth drums I will sequence them... but I see what you mean, if I were to try to use an electronic kit to trigger SD3 or EZDrummer kits. Thanks, Julien
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jbow
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 15, 11 8:40 PM
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That kit looks cool and fun Craig. J
Sonar Platinum Studiocat Pro 16G RAM (some bells and whistles) HP Pavilion dm4 1165-dx (i5)-8G RAM Octa-Capture KRK Rokit-8s MIDI keyboards... Control Pad mics. I HATE THIS CMPUTER KEYBARD!
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jackn2mpu
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 15, 11 9:18 PM
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jbow Doesn't matter how the electronic drumkit brain is hooked up to the computer - USB or regular MIDI. If you don't have a powerful enough computer that can run at low latency when you're recording (especially drums) you're going to hear the sound out of time when you play the drumkit. Actually, you don't have to be recording to hear the latency if you're using the drum sounds on the computer instead of what comes out of the electronic kit. Your best bet would be to monitor direct the sounds produced by the electric drumkit when recording and not use monitoring coming off of Sonar (or any recording program). This doesn't just extend to drums but to recording any instrument. The reason it can be more prevalent on drums is because there's so much more going on with drums than with any other instrument out there. Wouldn't I just record them through my Octa-Capture and rely on it's low latency? Or, like you mentioned, use direct monitoring? If I use some softsynth drums I will sequence them... but I see what you mean, if I were to try to use an electronic kit to trigger SD3 or EZDrummer kits. Thanks, Julien A lot of this depends on exactly what you are trying to accomplish. If you want to record the electronic drumkit sounds then you also want to direct monitor the output of the module because even if you use direct monitoring from Sonar there's a delay. You say that if you use softsynth drums you will sequence them. How are you going to input the drum hits? By way of the electronic drum kit's MIDI? If so, you still want to use direct monitoring of the audio output of the electric drumkit because of the latency. I don't know about the Octa-Capture - does it have direct monitoring of the inputs? If it does then use that.
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Jonbouy
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 16, 11 4:50 AM
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mike_mccue A great gift you can give your son can be teaching him to play with a light technique. I was inspired by my mom's taste in music to strive to play a trap kit as quietly as possible. When ever she heard a drummer play quietly she would point out their skill and taste. Ah, yes. Now you mention it I remember my Mother always encouraging me toward a deft touch. Ten minutes into a practice session I can still hear her coaxing me toward that goal "SHUT THAT BLOODY ROW UP OR THOSE INFERNAL THINGS ARE GOING OUT OF THE WINDOW!". It helped me in the end...
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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bapu
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 16, 11 4:06 PM
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Jonbouy mike_mccue A great gift you can give your son can be teaching him to play with a light technique. I was inspired by my mom's taste in music to strive to play a trap kit as quietly as possible. When ever she heard a drummer play quietly she would point out their skill and taste. Ah, yes. Now you mention it I remember my Mother always encouraging me toward a deft touch. Ten minutes into a practice session I can still hear her coaxing me toward that goal "SHUT THAT BLOODY ROW UP OR THOSE INFERNAL THINGS ARE GOING OUT OF THE WINDOW!". It helped me in the end... That's a big drooom.
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UbiquitousBubba
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 17, 11 10:24 AM
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I was living in an apartment when I got my first electronic drum kit (1990). I was so excited about the prospect of playing my heart out anytime of the day or night without getting complaints from the neighbors. I strapped on my headphones and started jamming. A few minutes later, someone pounded on my door. My neighbor downstairs had called the landlord to complain about the noise. Yes, the noise. I had never considered the sound of the sticks and pedals hitting triggers. No amount of pleading or reasoning worked. She was home 24/7, startled by noises of any kind, and very eager to complain about anything. Funny. I had to listen to her TV playing at 200 db, but the sound of sticks on a pad was unbearable. A few months later, I moved, leaving a very disgruntled landlord and a hostile neighbor behind. Now, when my kids want to play my acoustic drums at 10:00 PM, I tell them to go ahead and play. That's why we have a house with a basement. The neighbors never complain. I've asked them if they are bothered by the noise, but they say something like, "No, Mr. Crazed Lunatic! We don't hear anything at all! Please don't eat us!" Hope that helps.
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jackn2mpu
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Re:My grand daughter wants electronic drums and I want to get something I can use too...
October 17, 11 11:42 AM
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UbiquitousBubba I was living in an apartment when I got my first electronic drum kit (1990). I was so excited about the prospect of playing my heart out anytime of the day or night without getting complaints from the neighbors. I strapped on my headphones and started jamming. A few minutes later, someone pounded on my door. My neighbor downstairs had called the landlord to complain about the noise. Yes, the noise. I had never considered the sound of the sticks and pedals hitting triggers. No amount of pleading or reasoning worked. She was home 24/7, startled by noises of any kind, and very eager to complain about anything. Funny. I had to listen to her TV playing at 200 db, but the sound of sticks on a pad was unbearable. A few months later, I moved, leaving a very disgruntled landlord and a hostile neighbor behind. Now, when my kids want to play my acoustic drums at 10:00 PM, I tell them to go ahead and play. That's why we have a house with a basement. The neighbors never complain. I've asked them if they are bothered by the noise, but they say something like, "No, Mr. Crazed Lunatic! We don't hear anything at all! Please don't eat us!" Hope that helps. That's the one thing that's a bummer - it's not totally silent. I think the biggest offender is the bass drum pedal hitting the trigger, particularly if you play with your heel up because you have more force coming down on the pedal then if you play heel down. Also dependent on the pedal you use. Someone mentioned the Pearl e-kit earlier - I have to wonder how noisy that setup is when using the electronic triggers. That's the kit you can switch, by way of changing the heads, from electronic to acoustic. What I'll never get over is how much more expensive an electronic kit is versus an acoustic kit. I understand the reasons, but still...............
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