Need figure 8 mic advice

A nice choice might be a used AKG 414.

I was using one of my 414s in omni on acoustic guitar today.

If you buy a ribbon mic consider buying a nice high gain preamp to accompany it.

best regards,
mike

I used a AKG 414 (mid) and an SM81 (side) in combination in front of my drumset a few time with very impressive results.

I bought the 414 used on ebay a couple of years ago for under $700 (not sure if that's in your price range) ... and it has turned out to be a great investment.  If you go the ebay route, the bidding on 414,s is very competitive.

If you buy a ribbon mic consider buying a nice high gain preamp to accompany it.

I have the AEA R92.  At first, I used it with a two channel ART pre with all the gains cranked and it was noisy ... I have since aquired a Lunchbox and the Grace 501 pre which has boat loads of gain.  I should probably go try the R92 as a mid in an M/S configuration. 

oh wow, the Shure KSM 44 is genius for this.

Look at Dave,

Making his own M-S matrix... you are a clever boy.

Honestly, It's to early for me to think it through... I usually use something like Voxengo's free MSED plugin for the MS matrix.

I am having trouble remembering Is flipping the extra SM81 track the way to go, or are you supposed to flip one send of the figure 8 signal, or does it all add up to the same thing?

Oh boy, now I have to go read and think a bit.

Thanks Dave... loads of fun!

all the best,
mike

In the set–up … I used the figure 8 mic (the AEA Ribbon or the AKG) as the mid and the cardioid pattern mic (sm81) as the side.

I recorded 2 tracks then created a 3^rd track by drag copying the sm81 track.

I flipped the phase on the copied track and then grouped the 2 faders associated with the sm81 together.

I think part of the point is that when you collapse the stereo track to mono … the “side” components of the stereo track cancel each other out and you are left with just the “mid” microphone component (essentially doing away with comb filtering).

Track 1 – Ribbon or AKG facing drum-set … this is the mid mic, mixed down the middle
Track 2 – sm81 at 90 degrees to drum set … this is the side mic, panned hard left
Track 3 – copied track 2 and invert phase, panned hard right

... my bad, my set-up needs to be turned 90 degrees.

Well back to the studio to try one more time.

Mike ... I walked down into the basement and looked at the way I set the mic's up after I read your post the second time and laughed ... oops!
 

OK ... and this is why I laughed when I realized what I did.  My intention was to use the traditional M-S set-up, it's just my mind was not engaged when I set the mic's up and I was flashing back to a bunch of experiments that I did a couple of years ago.

Mike, you will probably get a kick out of this old thread.  As an academic exercise, I was experimenting with using 2 sm81's as sides and the copying and flipping phases to create 4 side tracks instead of 2.  I am pretty sure I have the project ... if I can find it I will re-post it.

http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=1683717&high=akg

Wow, I would not have thought my original thread on figure 8 mics was going to spur these  deep discussions...educational. My first tutorial on M/S set up and then how to set up the M/S decoding matrix in the DAW/mixer was from: Joe Dochtermann - Big Studio Secrets for Home Recording and Production (great book with DVD). If I am going to get a figure 8 mic for the first time, should I go with ribbon or condensor- to record acoustic guitar....

It's helpful to consider that the AEA R92 is specifically made to shove up next to an very loud electric guitar amp. Also, not to nagbap Dave, but I do not think it has a symmetrical figure 8 response... the two sides are advertised, if I recall correctly, two have slightly different frequency response. (The Royer 121 is similar in that regard)

The AEA R84 is the AEA ribbon mic that is ideal for acoustic guitar. I have two and I love them. I already had suitable preamps when I bought them... so I didn't encounter the disappointment that some do when they get a ribbon mic. It's a traditional design with symmetrical response etc.


I also own a pair of AKG 414s. I bought them about 20 years ago. I like them very much as they seem to produce a sound that is accurate in the mids and highs and very clean and authoritative in the lows and mids. I like them because they sound great in the low frequencies.

It is generally advised that one use small diaphragm condensers on acoustic guitars because the bass gets funky and blurry on many large diaphragm mics. Also many large diaphragm mics have hyped presence in the upper midrange to help with vocals and that makes the guitar sound squeaky.

The AKG 414 is note worthy as a LDC in that it works very well on acoustic guitar.

The 414 has been modified by AKG a few times over it's lifetime... they all have more in common than difference... don't get too hung up on which 414 is best. You might want to learn about the differences if you do choose to shop for a used one.

I have tried many of the new affordable mics... let's just say that I'm glad I already owned some adequate mics before the opportunity to buy the affordable mics became available. I don't have to compare them seriously. I just use the stuff I already have.


I have heard that the new economy ribbon mics really stink, but we hear all sorts of good things about economy condensers. Keep that in mind as you consider your range of options.


Good Luck.

best regards,
mike