space_cowboy


Miles was more experimental jazz no?

I think the "definition" of something like Miles Davis will have a hard time ... and in the end, it might even get taken away from jazz itself, since the definitions of music these days, tend to exclude "experimentation" and "improvisation" ... in its definitions, which makes "jazz" a piece of music that is defined by this and that ... it's all too academic.
 
The one thing that one of his bass players used to say, and it is written as such on an article on these on "Bass Player" monthly earlier this year (or last year -- not sure), was that Miles would say ... we start, then I do this, then you do that, then John does his thing, then Joe does his thing, then we come together and finish ... and this would be considered so much "free form" that most academic definitions will have a serious problem with it ... but in the end? ... Miles is probably one of the most important and influential people to the likes of what became known as "progressive" anything ...
 
Note here ... space ... you gotta look for that DVD on Tom Dowd ... that DVD has the best "history" of American music in the 40's, 50's and 60's than you could shake a stick at ... and the result was? ... a man that had an ear for music ... and gave us one of the most beautiful things ever done in rock music ... notice that it wasn't exactly composed either! You have to have an ear for the freedom and free from!

To be honest with you, I would stay away from that website's definition of the music. 

i just threw it out there for conversation's sake.

i don't care for labels at all.




to me, progressive, simply means arrangements and playing that stand out against 'standard' commercial music.


that covers a LOT of ground.


i laugh at a lot of folk's ideas of what 'progressive' means..


but when it comes to standard rock and jazz, and the more well known groups that have forged new ground during a time of development, it's fairly easy to document.

After a while Prog rock had just come full circle and they were beating the same horse with a different stick. I'll always be a fan but sometimes you just have to give it a break.

If you were really prog you'd order them by something like album length, or average track length, or the amount of cyan ink used in the cover art...

trimph1


Actually, the way I have mine is just by artist name. Whether they end up in chronological order is completely a different matter..

Hmm...  All I can say is if you have as many different genres as I do, "shuffle play" could get very interesting!

Rbh


" Journey and Foreigner?  Prog?  Ahem."

I agree with the Ahem on Foreigner.... but  The first 2 journey albums...though not prog necessarily... were 2 of the finest albums of the mid 70's....when - of course rock and roll reached perfection. 
A lot of people don't really roll Focus into the prog rock idiom - but I do.. ..I could never really distinguish progressive ....from what I used to call classical rock to which Yes and Gentle Giant, PFM and Genesis are the standard bearers. anyone else recall the band Maxophone ?

Yeah, early Journey was such a different sound. Rollie was clearly at the helm. Look into the Future is probably one of my to 10 favorite albums.
 I can't wait to get my albums out of storage. I'll probably spend a week listening to my old vinyl.
Yes, Heep, Ambrosia...etc. Good stuff, Maynard.

Zenwit


 A couple years back Belew pulled a reverse Dave Grohl and migrated from guitar to electronic drum kit for some work with Fripp.  A true renaissance progger.  And he does seem to tap into high voltage sense of joy when we plays.  Told about not holding anything back.

Space Cowboy:  have you heard any of Bruford's solo work from the early 80's?  He had Allan Holdsworth in the guitar slot.

Thanks to all the posters with suggestions for bands to check out.  Two thumbs up. 

Including, on Adios A La Pasada from the Feels Good To Me album, what must be some of the most sublime electric guitar ever recorded.
 
 

batsbrew

...
to me, progressive, simply means arrangements and playing that stand out against 'standard' commercial music.


that covers a LOT of ground.


i laugh at a lot of folk's ideas of what 'progressive' means..


but when it comes to standard rock and jazz, and the more well known groups that have forged new ground during a time of development, it's fairly easy to document.

The reason why I do not separate "music" into styles ... is because a STYLE is not a process, it's a RESULT ... and that result is a definition that is formulated LATER, and does not, NECESSARILY, have anything to do with the music itself.
 
My point always was, and I have always taken the artists' side, that for the most part you write for what you see, not because you want to make something progressive. And this is the important lesson from Miles Davis, that is very scary for "progressive rock" and too many other places ... what if it is done with rock musicians? ... and IT WAS, in Germany with Krautrock and many other places ... but because it was improvised and later became "standard" it can not be considered "progressive" ... and all in all, the whole definition is a complete and total disgusting description of exactly what music is NOT for a lot of people ... but a couple of imperialistic folks still think that they should control the world and have all the definitions of ALL western music ... to the point that they even deny that Eastern Music is music because those are not the "known" scales for music! --- no kidding -- that discussion was insane.
 
All in all, the adventurous will be remembered. The idiots that created these academic/commercial terms for nothing will never be heard from again ... and I'm sure that most of us enjoy listening to the ones that are worthy of being remembered ...
 
You know what's weird'er? The definition does not hold up on all the other "styles" of music ... and that would mean that "progressive rock" is the 1st new music that has been created in 500 years! How ****ing bizarre is that notion?

Moshkiae

trmph on Magma:

 

Magma got a 15 minute standing ovation in SF in 1999 in their first time here ... and Mr. Vander had tears in his eyes! 30 plus years ... and their first time in America! It finally happened! And this was the show that I was scared to see ... it would be fabulous or fall over in 3 seconds ... they did not fall over and just flew through it all.  
 

I was at that show in SF in 1999. One of the very best I've ever seen - almost a religious experience. Magma openning the show with a 40 minutes piece of music and you could have heard a pin drop in the audience. Just Marvelous! I saw plenty of prog shows in the 70s (Yes,JT,Genesis,GG,UK,...) but I have to admit the best ones were probably in the last 15 years. PFM in Quebec City 4 or 5 years ago. Jethro Tull here in Seattle with my 2 teenager sons ( How cool is that). Only one regret - never saw KC live.

batsbrew


never heard of magma before....

 

Rbh


Rap is way over rated about it's social contribution and way over used. 

Social contribution???
 
I can't think of many other things that have deteriorated the fabric of society more.

mike_mccue

news flash:

STEELY DAN IS AN RnB Outfit.

You desperate *prog* fans don't get to steal him.

The music press was referring to Steely Dan as "prog" in 1972-3, at least in the UK.  Categories seem to have changed over the years.  Tangerine Dream were initially classed as prog too, before someone invented the term "ambient".