Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal

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silvercn
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2011/11/28 20:40:13 (permalink)

Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal

Hello - for several recordings now I have been tracking my acoustic guitar alone and overdubbing my vocals. I would like to get tips about how others set up for recording both at the same time - mics; placements; etc...thanks !!
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    timidi
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    Re:Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal 2011/11/28 21:00:20 (permalink)

    I don't have much advise on the technicalities of it all other than set up two mics and have at it.
    A couple of condensers always works pretty good.

    That said:
    You will get the best performance by performing the 2 together. You will get the best and most controllable sound from playing them separate. The trade offs are always the bugger.
    Another thought you may try is sort of a combination of both in that you record both but concentrate only on the vocal and try not to play the guit while singing but hold and strum the guit (to have the feel) only when needed to get the feel. This is sort of backwards in that most folks tend to track a guitar and then sing to it. What I am saying is sing it and then track the guitar.

    Just a thought.

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    jamescollins
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    Re:Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal 2011/11/28 21:56:40 (permalink)
    Hi Charles, great that you are going to try recording both at once! As timidi has explained, there are limitations which will be imposed on you come editing and mixing time doing it this way - now that's not necessarily a bad thing, but you need to be aware of it.

    Firstly, you need to have a clear idea of how you want the final product to sound. If you want an up-close, stereo 'pop' sound, then you're going to be limited in the extent to which you can achieve this effect by recording vox and gtr simultaneously. Reason being that you will inevitably get a fair amount of vocal bleed in your guitar mics, so when you pan them to give the guitar a bit of a stereo spread, the vocals are going to feel unstable, like they're wandering, due to phase issues. If you want your guitar to have a bit of width, then I've found the best way is to mic up the guitar in stereo, record a DI signal too, and make sure you use bi-directional mics on the guitar and vocals in order to try and minimize vocal bleed. That way you can increase the overall guitar:vocal ratio by mixing in the DI signal, and still get a bit of width and 'true tone' by mixing in the 2 guitar mics.

    Another option is to forget a stereo guitar, and just record the DI and a single mic on the guitar. Again, best to use a bi-directional mic on guitar and vocals. But do spend the necessary time placing the guitar mic to achieve a well balanced sound. The guitar has a complex and uneven frequency radiation pattern, so it can be very easy to 'spotlight' a certain section when close-micing, and be left with an unbalanced tone.

    One thing you definitely should not do is to record both a DI signal and a mic on the guitar, and then hard pan them. Obviously you're going to get a whole of vocal in the guitar mic, so if you hard pan this, it's going to screw up your stereo field and make the listener feel on edge.

    Another option is to use a single, well placed mic, usually in omni, and the DI signal. But to get good results here, you MUST have a good sounding room, and you MUST spend a lot of time on placing your single mic. You will also need to mix yourself as you play.

    My advice would be to try all of the above, and more - you don't know bad taste until you've been there! The key is to experiment and listen. It won't do any good me saying, "put this particular mic here, this one here, and this one here" because it is truly amazing how different everyone sounds. But as I've said, a good place to start is with bi-directional mics all round, as this will help to minimize bleed. Have fun, and post some samples!
    post edited by jamescollins - 2011/11/28 22:00:33

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    Jeff Evans
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    Re:Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal 2011/11/29 00:51:55 (permalink)
    There is a way to set up two mikes (in figure 8) in a special setup. Have you got two mikes that can be put into figure 8? If you have, it is possible to capture vocals and guitar at the same time with almost zero spill on each of these tracks. ie no vocals on the guitar mike and very little guitar on the vocal mike.

    It is by far the best way to do it in terms of performance but you need two quality condensers that can be put into figure 8. If you have them I will explain it to you. It is not complicated but in fact simple and you will get two great sounding tracks that you can process anyway you like.
    post edited by Jeff Evans - 2011/11/29 04:27:35

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    DeeringAmps
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    Re:Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal 2011/11/29 09:23:54 (permalink)
    Jeff,
    I have a couple of multi-pattern condensers.
    Please continue...

    T

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    Karyn
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    Re:Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal 2011/11/29 10:47:47 (permalink)
    Use two figure 8 mics in quite close. Have them both pointing the same direction.

    The rear of a fig 8 is just as sensitive as the front, so as long as they're both pointing the same way they should each hear the same room reflections. You can use this to your advantage by cross mixing in a reverse phase part from each mic to the other, thus canceling out the room reflections and increasing separation between voice and guitar.

    The side of a figure 8 mic is almost dead, position the guitar mic so the front points at the guitar while the side (or top) is towards your mouth.  Do the reverse for the vocal mic.


    Combine the above and you should get very good separation.

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    Middleman
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    Re:Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal 2011/11/29 11:15:56 (permalink)
    You have to put both mics in figure 8 and think about the rejection area of each one. Align the rejection area to the place you want the least input for example, if you are recording voice then point the vocal mic's rejection area toward the guitar and the guitar mic's rejection areas toward the voice. Each mic will pic up the least amount of signal from the source you don't want captured. I hope that makes sense.

    It is not total isolation but almost so you have two tracks at the end of the process. One with strong vocal and weak guitar and one with strong guitar and weak vocal.

    I prefer to record in two passes, the first with two pencil condensers in a slanted 1:3 parallel fashion with one mic at the neck and the other just below and sometimes towards the bridge depending on the room location. Then I use a large condenser in the second pass on the vocal. The primary reason is it makes the guitar a bit more 3D and magical. Also, if I decide to re-arrange the song, I can retrack the guitar without having it influence the vocal. This way I don't have to retrack the vocal if I like what's going on there.

    The only right and wrong is not capturing a compelling track so do what sounds best.

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    DeeringAmps
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    Re:Set up for recording acoustic guitar and vocal 2011/11/29 12:38:01 (permalink)
    Thanks to all.

    T

    Tom Deering
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