Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok?

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ChuckC
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2011/12/03 21:49:29 (permalink)

Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok?

Interested in checking out some new toys and not sure what will be required....
Do I need a dongle-berry for the demos?
If not, will I need one when I buy their products?    
I am completely new to the Ilok/dongle thing,I know it's a piece of hardware basically to protect the manufacturer from theft .... that's about all I gather of it. 
Pro's & Con's?

ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
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    ltb
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/03 22:18:31 (permalink)
    Yes, you'll need an ilok for Waves & any other manufacturer that uses Pace technology.

    Some people will not use it out of principle. It doesn't bother me, I bought a Waves bundle years ago & still have my original iLok.  Be aware that Waves now requires iLok2, I can't complain about that either as I got a free one from purchasing Slate Digital's VCC.
    They can be a PITA getting them to work properly & along with Waves you need a bit of patience. Again I haven't had any real issues aside from re-installing them occasionally. 

    Personally I prefer it over challenge/ response authorizations, they also sometimes require patience to get them installed correctly.

    The new iLok2 holds 500 licenses so I don't worry about using them up. Whenever I demo I email the co's. support & have them deleted from the iok after the demo is over.


    #2
    yorolpal
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/03 22:29:57 (permalink)
    So how come my WAVES stuff is still mostly working on my old iLoks??  Are they planning to move EVERYTHING over to the new iLok?  No biggie as I have one (for my Slate stuff) but still, this is the first I've heard of that.

    https://soundcloud.com/doghouse-riley/tracks 
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    #3
    ltb
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/03 22:57:52 (permalink)
    Sorry, you're correct, the regular ilok will work. It's a recommendation from Waves to Mercury owners to use ilok2 to get all the licenses on one iLok.
    #4
    ChuckC
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 00:40:31 (permalink)
    Wierd, Ya know I don't understand why they make ya jump throug the Ilok hoops and they are still not proecting themselves from anything.
       I asked this question because aweek or so ago I was talking to another friend/aquaintence who has a project studio just talking shop, gear etc.  I mentioned that I have been checking out the different tape sim plugs and that I wanted to get a chance to check out the MPX Mastertape plugin for myelf (from what I can gather from youtube videos I like the sound of it).  He says If you want it, I got it bro....   I was like Wow, you'd be willing to let me use one of your authorizations to try it out?  He was like.... pffft, dude I didn't pay for it.    
          Well while I am not the type to go turn somebody in, it just didn't sit right with me and I told him I'd rather buy it.  So tonight I went to the waves website to do just that, and noticed the Ilok required thing. I'll be honest, I am tempted to just get the free (pirate) version and mail them a check for the $99 and just skip the Ilok B.S.

    It sounds like more of a pain in the azz than it's worth.

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
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    #5
    Rain
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 09:28:25 (permalink)
    Out there in the real world, the ratio of musicians/project studio owners I talk w/ who are actually paying for their plug-ins is the exact opposite of what you'd imagine. And they're the majority of the people I meet and hang out with.

    A lot of them just don't feel they have to pay for it unless they are making money. I could probably fill my entire HD w/ plug-ins if I accepted half of what's been offered to me, including Waves Mercury Bundle. 

    iLock doesn't work, as simple as that. No matter how one wants to justify it. It prevents paying customers from using the plug-ins they paid for on more than one computer at the time, and prevents them from redistributing the software they paid for freely. Don't know about you but the last thing I'd do if I paid $3000 for plug-ins would be to give them away for free. But if your buddies really want it w/o paying, they'll figure a way to get it, anyway.

    So it only "works" w/ honest people - not because it's effective in itself, but because they're honest in the first place. They'd act the same w/o a copy protection scheme. 

    As for demos requiring iLock, man...  This only goes to show how ridiculous iLock is as a protection scheme.

    It should be available as an option for people who want to be able to use their license on different computers.  
    post edited by Rain - 2011/12/04 09:29:29

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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    ltb
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 10:17:56 (permalink)
    Rain


    Out there in the real world, the ratio of musicians/project studio owners I talk w/ who are actually paying for their plug-ins is the exact opposite of what you'd imagine. And they're the majority of the people I meet and hang out with.

    A lot of them just don't feel they have to pay for it unless they are making money. I could probably fill my entire HD w/ plug-ins if I accepted half of what's been offered to me, including Waves Mercury Bundle. 


    Unfortunately so many people are crooks &/or hypocrites. What's ridiculous is that people constantly complain about Waves prices, principles & ethics for using ilok protection yet they use cracked versions of the software on their projects & in their 'studios'.

    "A lot of them just don't feel they have to pay for it unless they are making money", you're kidding right? That's right up there with defending the mentality that any music found on the internet should be free to download without any compensation to the artist.

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    ChuckC
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 10:39:10 (permalink)
    Alright, well I really don't like the idea of doing that either after sleeping on it.  So are there any recommendations as to other Tape sim/saturation plugs I should consider as an alternative that do not involve Ilok/dongle crap?

    Rain:  It's kinda like the locks or alarm systems on cars, in that like you said... it keeps the honest people honest.   But with that said, would you buy a car that had an alarm system on it that made it a significantly bigger PITA for YOU to use YOUR car even if it was proven that thieves had found ways to get around that system?  If it made you enter certain codes or special keys to get in, then again to start the car, and for turning on the stereo etc..... then after all that what if the fact that the security system was running actually robbed your vehicle of some performance resources?    Then on top of all that, if your "special keys" are lost or stolen you would need to buy a whole new car because there is no support from the manufacturer for key replacement...   
       From what I have read and researched on the Ilok system last night, this is the analogy that keeps coming into my mind.  My answer to the above questions would be a resounding HELL NO!  I am not interested in such a product.

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
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    #8
    yorolpal
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 10:42:20 (permalink)
    Another thing to remember is you really never "own" your plugs or instruments...you "lease" them.

    https://soundcloud.com/doghouse-riley/tracks 
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    ChuckC
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 11:18:01 (permalink)
    Carl,
       Alot of people seem to just have no remorse or guilt at all for this.  But at some level, we are ALL guilty of some kind of theft.
       Unless you have never:
    1) Played a cover song out in a venue and gotten paid for your performance of it.

    2) Downloaded (free of charge) the songs you intend to cover rather than going out and buying all the physical albums.  At least when we all bought vinyl, cassettes, or CD's we actually "owned" that copy and could loan it to other band members to learn the songs, now you don't "own" a darn thing and if you share it, your a thief right?

    3) Used any warez of any kind....
       I'll be honst because I am not bullsh*tter.  I call it like I see it.
       I own a lawn and landscape buisness.  A couple years ago I got a call for an estimate and when I got there the guy noticed my necklace had 2 guitar charms on it and asked if I was a musician?  I told him I play in a band and did some recording too.  He asked what program?  I said no, I used a Tascam 8 track at the time.  When I was finished mowing the lawn for him that first time I knocked on the door again for payment. He handed me the money and a CDR with a piece of paper and said "well I went and found you some recording software I think you'll like, here's the serial number(s) one of them should work"
    After about a year I found that CDR again still in my truck and thought what the hell...   It was a pirated version of sonar 6 PE, I loaded it up,  imported the audio for 2 songs from my tascam on an old desktop computer and was like WOW!  I can really edit these on here!  Not just a high and low tone knob and a fader...   I found the UI was intuitive enough that I was able to get in and work with it without any problems even having never used a computer to do any audio work at all!   For those 2 songs I was pushing that old computer hard & the Cpu was often upwards of 60+%  so I started poking around online... 6 months later I paid to have a DAW built by ADK and had them install a legit copy of 8.5PE shipped to me with well, basically all the gear you see in my signature.
      So, it kinda cracks me up when I see one of these threads where someone suggests that many people who use pirated versions to "test or try" software often end up buying it in the end.  The person who makes the statement is usually cyber lynched for being an idiot because "CROOKS ARE CROOKS!!  MORRON, THEY'LL NEVER BUY A LICENCED VERSION!".  I have read a couple cases of people like me, and I venture to say there are ALOT more that will never admit to it, especially no here on the forum.  So be it.  So I apologize to the bakers, but I wouldn't have ever found or grown to love Cakewalk if it weren't for this phenomenon.  I am not saying that this example makes it all ok, it doesn't at all.... but as sated above, honest people stay honest regardless of security protocals.   I WANTED TO PAY or a poduct I liked.

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
    http://www.stormroomstudios.com
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    #10
    ltb
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 13:05:40 (permalink)
    ChuckC


    Carl,
       Alot of people seem to just have no remorse or guilt at all for this.  But at some level, we are ALL guilty of some kind of theft.
       Unless you have never:
    1) Played a cover song out in a venue and gotten paid for your performance of it.

    2) Downloaded (free of charge) the songs you intend to cover rather than going out and buying all the physical albums.  At least when we all bought vinyl, cassettes, or CD's we actually "owned" that copy and could loan it to other band members to learn the songs, now you don't "own" a darn thing and if you share it, your a thief right?

    3) Used any warez of any kind....
       I'll be honst because I am not bullsh*tter.  I call it like I see it.
       I own a lawn and landscape buisness.  A couple years ago I got a call for an estimate and when I got there the guy noticed my necklace had 2 guitar charms on it and asked if I was a musician?  I told him I play in a band and did some recording too.  He asked what program?  I said no, I used a Tascam 8 track at the time.  When I was finished mowing the lawn for him that first time I knocked on the door again for payment. He handed me the money and a CDR with a piece of paper and said "well I went and found you some recording software I think you'll like, here's the serial number(s) one of them should work"
    After about a year I found that CDR again still in my truck and thought what the hell...   It was a pirated version of sonar 6 PE, I loaded it up,  imported the audio for 2 songs from my tascam on an old desktop computer and was like WOW!  I can really edit these on here!  Not just a high and low tone knob and a fader...   I found the UI was intuitive enough that I was able to get in and work with it without any problems even having never used a computer to do any audio work at all!   For those 2 songs I was pushing that old computer hard & the Cpu was often upwards of 60+%  so I started poking around online... 6 months later I paid to have a DAW built by ADK and had them install a legit copy of 8.5PE shipped to me with well, basically all the gear you see in my signature.
      So, it kinda cracks me up when I see one of these threads where someone suggests that many people who use pirated versions to "test or try" software often end up buying it in the end.  The person who makes the statement is usually cyber lynched for being an idiot because "CROOKS ARE CROOKS!!  MORRON, THEY'LL NEVER BUY A LICENCED VERSION!".  I have read a couple cases of people like me, and I venture to say there are ALOT more that will never admit to it, especially no here on the forum.  So be it.  So I apologize to the bakers, but I wouldn't have ever found or grown to love Cakewalk if it weren't for this phenomenon.  I am not saying that this example makes it all ok, it doesn't at all.... but as sated above, honest people stay honest regardless of security protocals.   I WANTED TO PAY or a poduct I liked.

    No, I don't download from warez sites or music sites illegally & when I did play covers the clubs & venues paid the performing rights fees. 
    It's simple really, if you can't afford or do not want to use iLok or Waves then don't, but don't use crack versions then try to defend theft using some type of existential morality.





    #11
    Rain
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 13:07:07 (permalink)
    carl




    "A lot of them just don't feel they have to pay for it unless they are making money", you're kidding right? That's right up there with defending the mentality that any music found on the internet should be free to download without any compensation to the artist.

    Just to be clear (though I assume you got that), I am in no way condoning the practice or any excuse of the practice. Every thing on my computer is 100% legal/paid for. I won't even keep a functional shareware after the trial period expires if I don't want to pay for it. 

    I know first hand how it can hurt you.

    I've actually had to deal w/  fan sites recently who were redistributing my wife's music for free. It's even more of a slap in the face when people who call themselves fans and take the time to build an entire web site dedicated to an artist provide links to illegal downloads. 

    post edited by Rain - 2011/12/04 13:21:01

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
    #12
    Rain
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 13:19:56 (permalink)
    ChuckC


    3) Used any warez of any kind....
       I'll be honst because I am not bullsh*tter.  I call it like I see it.
       I own a lawn and landscape buisness.  A couple years ago I got a call for an estimate and when I got there the guy noticed my necklace had 2 guitar charms on it and asked if I was a musician?  I told him I play in a band and did some recording too.  He asked what program?  I said no, I used a Tascam 8 track at the time.  When I was finished mowing the lawn for him that first time I knocked on the door again for payment. He handed me the money and a CDR with a piece of paper and said "well I went and found you some recording software I think you'll like, here's the serial number(s) one of them should work"
    After about a year I found that CDR again still in my truck and thought what the hell...   It was a pirated version of sonar 6 PE, I loaded it up,  imported the audio for 2 songs from my tascam on an old desktop computer and was like WOW!  I can really edit these on here!  Not just a high and low tone knob and a fader...   I found the UI was intuitive enough that I was able to get in and work with it without any problems even having never used a computer to do any audio work at all!   For those 2 songs I was pushing that old computer hard & the Cpu was often upwards of 60+%  so I started poking around online... 6 months later I paid to have a DAW built by ADK and had them install a legit copy of 8.5PE shipped to me with well, basically all the gear you see in my signature.
      So, it kinda cracks me up when I see one of these threads where someone suggests that many people who use pirated versions to "test or try" software often end up buying it in the end.  The person who makes the statement is usually cyber lynched for being an idiot because "CROOKS ARE CROOKS!!  MORRON, THEY'LL NEVER BUY A LICENCED VERSION!".  I have read a couple cases of people like me, and I venture to say there are ALOT more that will never admit to it, especially no here on the forum.  So be it.  So I apologize to the bakers, but I wouldn't have ever found or grown to love Cakewalk if it weren't for this phenomenon.  I am not saying that this example makes it all ok, it doesn't at all.... but as sated above, honest people stay honest regardless of security protocals.   I WANTED TO PAY or a poduct I liked.

    Same here. When my younger brother brought his band's first demo home in the 90's, I asked him how the hell they had recorded that. His answer - well on a computer.


    I never knew that you could record audio and mix it on a comp, therefore, had no interest in them whatsoever. But that sparked my interest.


    Knowing nothing about software or licensing, when I discussed that w/ his friend who had recorded them, he told me he'd burn me a cd. For me, you bought a computer, and the software was just a free add-on, so I never questioned. Which of course I soon realized wasn't the case. But this provided me w/ my first glimpse at Pro Audio 6.


    So yes, trying can lead to buying. But I really don't think there's a rule or that it works like that for the majority. Even the people we consider honest in real life can be quite indulgent when it comes to software. So that doesn't leave a lot of people to actually buy the software.


    I had a programmer friend who was working a project for a governmental organization. When he mentioned in a meeting that he'd need this little shareware, he was answered: can't you download it for free?


    The practice is indeed wide spread.

    TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
    #13
    ltb
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 13:23:55 (permalink)
    Rain


    carl




    "A lot of them just don't feel they have to pay for it unless they are making money", you're kidding right? That's right up there with defending the mentality that any music found on the internet should be free to download without any compensation to the artist.

    Just to be clear (though I assume you got that), I am in no way condoning the practice or any excuse of the practice. Every thing on my computer is 100% legal/paid for. I won't even keep a functional shareware after the trial period expires if I don't want to pay for it. 

    I know first hand how it can hurt you.

    I've actually had to deal w/ a fan sites recently who were redistributing my wife's music for free. It's even more of a slap in the face when people who call themselves fans and take the time to build an entire web site dedicated to an artist provide links to illegal downloads. 

    No, I didn't  think you were condoning it & actually do understand your point of view.
    A shame to hear that your wife's music is being used illegally since there's not much you can do about it.

    #14
    ChuckC
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 16:11:41 (permalink)
    No, I don't download from warez sites or music sites illegally & when I did play covers the clubs & venues paid the performing rights fees. 
    It's simple really, if you can't afford or do not want to use iLok or Waves then don't, but don't use crack versions then try to defend theft using some type of existential morality.

    Carl,
       That is true That the clubs pay fees to ascap & bmi.  Your right.  My mistake.    And I am not defending theft.  I stated that above.  Even if I did get a copy something pirated (as I stated above) I would personally send a check or an annonimous money order just to clear my own mind of the guilt.    In this case, I might consider it to avoid the ILok crappola.  Sue me.   
      Speaking of which, why don't these companies spend money and resources to fight it?   To track and hold liable those that use torrents?  Some method of detection has got to be out there.  Or why not fight to get the sites that distribute crack versions of software shut down like the music industry crushed Napster?

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
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    #15
    Philip
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 18:55:53 (permalink)
    Warning:

    I'd stay away from Waves, per se, seeing they're *forever* 32-bit.  You will have to use Sonar-32 (per cw and waves tech support ... else, both waves and cw will not support you)

    Today's reasonable standard for DAW synths is 64-bit DAW (i.e., Sonar-64 and Cubase-64).

    (IOWs, myself, I'd forget ever running Waves with EWQL and Kontakt ... both of which invoke the 64-bit Sonar-Cubase standards)

    That said, the waves Z-noise cleaner is, perhaps, unmatched by anything out there (cleans hiss, pops, rumble, sibs, etc. in one swoop).

    Philip  
    (Isa 5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD)

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    #16
    ChuckC
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    Re:Wanting to demo/possibly buy some Waves plugs, Do I need an Ilok? 2011/12/04 19:39:24 (permalink)
    Philip,
      I have yet to use a single synth other than EZ drummer to run the midi data that I record with my V drums.    Everything else I have done involves eaither a DI box or Mic.  Though I have 8.5PE in 64 I am currently running the 32-bit for all my projects.  I just figured that at the end of the day it's broken down to 16 bit anyway, and since more plugs/tools are available in 32, so why bother with 64 bit? 
       I have yet to see anyone in the songs forum post.... "dude, that song sounds like 32 bit...  why aren't you running in 64?".  

    ADK Built DAW, W7, Sonar Platinum, Studio One Pro,Yamaha HS8's & HS8S  Presonus Studio/Live 24.4.2, A few decent mic pre's,  lots of mics, 57's,58 betas, Sm7b, LD Condensors, Small condensors, Senn 421's,  DI's,  Sans Amp, A few guitar amps etc. Guitars : Gib. LP, Epi. Lp, Dillion Tele, Ibanez beater, Ibanez Ergodyne 4 String bass, Mapex Mars series 6 pc. studio kit, cymbals and other sh*t.
    http://www.everythingiam.net/
    http://www.stormroomstudios.com
    Some of my productions: http://soundcloud.com/stormroomstudios
    #17
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