Tweeters breaking up with no overs???

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Starise
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2011/12/11 09:19:03 (permalink)

Tweeters breaking up with no overs???

 
 I am having a problem with some piano recordings I'm making. I have noticed that my tweets seem to break up in certain places on my songs,even when there is no clipping happening . I have tried to EQ some of this out, but when I notch out the more agressive peaks, the song seems to loose its punch.
 
  I made a few CD copies to play in the car,and when playing the song in the car the problem is so small that I need to strain to hear it...If I play the song after a conversion into soundcloud the problem almost disappears there too(most people probably would never hear it).
 
 My monitors are M-audio Bx8as and I have their amps on at full. Should I reduce that setting?My vsti isn't overdriven either. Any thoughts or ideas on what it might be?
 
 Here is a link to a recent Christmas song I recorded that shows the problem-
 
http://soundcloud.com/starise/oh-come-oh-come-emmanuel
 
 
 
 

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 09:30:02 (permalink)
    I run my Mackie MR-5's on the 50% detent point. That seems to be plenty loud enough...same as the sub. 

    It takes less energy to produce the higher frequency notes. If the monitors have a hi freq control try rolling it off. 


    I listened to the tune.....as far as I could hear it sounded OK to me. The only area might have been the last few notes that were quite high and accented. 

    If it's reproducible in other systems, it's in the recording and all that entails as opposed to your monitors being too loud. 

    But even on my computer speakers it sounded OK..... it seemed there was a bit of distortion in there. 

    If it's midi, go in and try editing the velocity of the offending notes. see if that makes a difference. 

    Nice version BTW. 

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    #2
    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 09:30:04 (permalink)

    Perhaps the speakers them selves have a resonance problem that you are simply revealing?

    In any event I'd try to find the frequency band that is doing it and back off a bit.

    Maybe try some multi band compression to isolate just the bad part.

    Maybe pull back the offending range with an EQ and boost a bit of lower mid for that "punch"?

    Maybe look to see if the problem is being exasperated by your reverb? Maybe the resonance is being aggravated there and can be pulled back without effecting the direct sound or punch?


    Good luck.

    best regards,
    mike





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    Starise
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 09:42:44 (permalink)
     Thanks Herb, I try backing off on my monitors amps to see if this helps. I did play with the midi velocity some and this did seem to improve the problem ...maybe I haven't adjusted it quite to where it should be, so I'll try those things.If I go too far I seem to loose the sound quality of the tines, there must be a happy medium in there somewhere. Thanks for your help.

      The upload to soundcloud seems to be making the problem better, not sure how.

     Mike, I am suspecting the speakers as well. I know they are low end monitors. I did use a spectrum analyser and lowered some of the offending peaks but then the music seems to loose some of its important range. Thanks for your help!

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 12:49:46 (permalink)
    Danny D commented on the song I recently posted that Sound Cloud had it sounding weird....a repost to Soundclick fixed the issue. 

    So it could also be related to the compression they use... 

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    #5
    bitflipper
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 12:54:29 (permalink)
    If you can hear the effect in the car, then it obviously has nothing to do with the settings on your nearfield monitors in the studio.

    All I heard in the song was what sounded like an overdriven mic preamp, IOW, something in the recording itself. Some of my piano libraries are a little distorted on the highest velocities of the higher notes. When I hit those samples I go in and lower the velocity just enough to not trigger them.

    When you upload a song as an MP3, you will necessarily lose some high-frequency content, where some of the distortion artifacts live. MP3 encoding might therefore disguise or mitigate the distortion.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    brundlefly
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    Re:Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 13:17:19 (permalink)
    Is that a real piano you're micing? Sounds real, except for the lack of action/pedal noises...? If so, I would have to think the mics or pres were being over-modulated/over-driven, and the noise was is in the analog signal before it ever got into your DAW.

    If it's a synth, especially a hardware digital piano being recorded from analog outputs, I would be looking at the output level of the synth being too high. And I'd want to know what synth that is, because it sounds great, otherwise. 





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    brundlefly
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 13:20:16 (permalink)
    All I heard in the song was what sounded like an overdriven mic preamp, IOW, something in the recording itself.



    Didn't see all the other responses before posting. Looks like you got the same impression I did.

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    Starise
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 18:29:14 (permalink)
     Thanks guys, I started probing around further and tried a recording of another song using my Motif rack. In that case there were no breakups of any kind using the same levels I had previously used with the VSTi. That points directly to the VSTi being the culprit.

     The VSTi is Pianissimo. I have the volume at halfway but I didn't adjust the velocity to any large degree. I believe doing that has helped. I adjusted the velocity in Sonar on the midi channel strip but had not adjusted it on the VSTi adjustment. Brundlefly, its funny you mention pedal noises because Pianissimo has pedal noises but I turned them off.

     You guys helped me to look in the right place...thanks!
     
     I'm posting the improved track here- http://soundcloud.com/sta...ome-oh-come-emmanuel-1
    post edited by Starise - 2011/12/11 21:26:01

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/11 18:36:28 (permalink)
    Starise.... the samples from one synth to the next are recorded differently and at different qualities. 

    Glad you found the problem.

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    brundlefly
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    Re: Tweeters breaking up with no overs??? 2011/12/12 14:02:29 (permalink)
    VSTi is Pianissimo



    I'm kind of embarassed that I couldn't immediately tell for certain that it was a sampled piano, and not a very expensive one at that. So much for my Golden Ears reputation. 

    Glad you got the issue figured out in any case.

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