The Maillard Reaction
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Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $11?
I need 5. So that's, like, $44.00 more than I have to spend if I decide to get the good ones. I'm going to go with the good ones because it's hard to know just when the ones that blow up and squirt white goo all over the place start sounding bad. Weren't we talking about parts cost recently? all the best, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2012/01/09 09:55:17
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drewfx1
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/09 12:27:38
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This thread is confusing to me.
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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spacealf
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/09 13:14:24
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They are made in China, I guess.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/09 13:40:12
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5 x 2.2 =11 5 x 11 = 55 55 - 11 = 44
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drewfx1
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/09 14:14:31
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Yes, but can you translate this: "Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $11?"
In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/09 14:25:31
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Typical McSizzzle attention getting tactics.
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/09 14:44:38
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Mike when I was bulding quality amplifiers in my hi fi days I never skimped on quality components. I built a Williamson class A valve hi fi amp back in the 70's. The electrolytic capacitors in the power supply had to be 8 uf 500V because the DC rail in the Williamson is 500V! (I wore it a few times too) I had to import them from Phillips in Holland because they made a 600 V capacitor. I was nervous about putting 500V onto a capacitor that was only rated to 500V!There were cheaper 500v units available even in Australia but I am so glad I got them from Phillips instead. They were built like a tank and almost the size of a softdrink can. And they looked fantastic too. They were quite expensive from memory. Also the output transformers had to be special in terms of their windings. The Williamson circuit uses some interesting taps on the primary of the output transformer. But I could not get the output transformers anywhere. I contacted a high quality transformer manufacturer in England and they said they would make them for me but a minimum run of 10! I convinced 4 other people to build Willimason's so I could get the 10 output transofmers wound by this quality company. They cost a lot too I can assure you. I think from memory we all got a local transformer company to wind the power transformer and the inductor used also in the power supply because there was not one large enough with enough Henries. The circuit called for a massive inductor there too. I was lucky with the output valves because I worked in Foreign Affairs at the time in the area of cryptographic encoding of our communications between our embassies. (My original area of expertise and the first area of electronics for me.) We had hundreds of them because our coding technology used KT66's would you believe. (Those were the days! I was cleared to Top Secret then and because of that I did not have to open my briefcase on the way out so I was able to smuggle pairs of them out each day! ) And we had a million dollar valve tester there too so I could get perfect matched pairs. We all got our chassis chrome plated too! I say go for it. You will be happy in the end and the gear will never fail. BTW I sold mine which I was very sad about. It did heat up the room on a good day! All 5 of them are in Canberra and fully functional to this day without fault! They do sound incredible. Coupled with Quad Electrostatic speakers (and a sub woofer) it is possibly one of the finest sounds you will ever hear. And it was all fed from the finest direct drive turntable with SME arm and Shure V15 III pickup which I still believe was one of the best cartridges produced ever! All I have got now from that era is the turntable.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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ampfixer
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/09 18:47:46
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Check out ampohm capacitors. A small company in England that is now out of business. I like using them but they are very big. The oil and copper foil types are the most hi-fi. I like the oil and tin or oil and aluminum for guitars. Hand rolled, ready to rock.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Deisel401rs
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/10 10:35:00
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Where do you guys get your hand rolled oil and aluminum caps for guitars. You talking about BumbleBee's? I've been modding my Randall preamps and am looking for an online store that has more to offer than Mojotone or the like. Thanks
Core 2 Quad Q8300, 8 gigs DDR2, WIN7 x64,Sonar PE 8.7.7, SATA WD650gig(primary), SATA WD160gig(audio),SATA Maxtor(loops,samples) WD320gig external(backup), MOTU 828mkII, Line 6 UX8, , Alesis DM5, Edirol PCR-M80, Wharfedale 8.1s, '86 Les Paul Studio Lite, Fender Blackout Tele, Breedlove Acoustic/Electric Bass, Schecter Deluxe Bass, Dean Luna Acoustic, Line 6 500 Variax. Keeley Compressor, Line 6 PODXT Live, Roland GR-20 Synth.
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ampfixer
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/10 18:02:44
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The reissue bumblebee caps are a complete rip off, trust me. For guitar the mojo vitamin T caps are reall nice. They are oil and polypropylene. I don't use them in all amp stages as I find the Mallory 150 types to be very good and more affordabled. There are very expensive amps on the market completely wired with Orange Drops. The ampohm caps are very big so space is a consideration. I built the same amp with 3 different sets of caps and the result was subtle but noticeable. I've found a nice balance between cost and tone is easy to get with modern caps. I never buy NOS caps, I like them fresh. Would you buy an NOS tuna sandwich?
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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Deisel401rs
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/10 19:02:44
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Lol. NOS tuna. . . . that's funny dude. I've replaced all the caps in my Randall preamps with Orange Drops and Silver Mica's. As of yet I don't hear a difference but I'm hoping they just need to break in. Def gonna try the Vitamin T's in my Les Paul. Thanks for the info. Have a good evening. BTW, would you have any ideas for maling my Marshall like SL+ preamp more "Marshally"? I'm kind of a novice at this with good soldering skills.
post edited by Deisel401rs - 2012/01/10 19:04:54
Core 2 Quad Q8300, 8 gigs DDR2, WIN7 x64,Sonar PE 8.7.7, SATA WD650gig(primary), SATA WD160gig(audio),SATA Maxtor(loops,samples) WD320gig external(backup), MOTU 828mkII, Line 6 UX8, , Alesis DM5, Edirol PCR-M80, Wharfedale 8.1s, '86 Les Paul Studio Lite, Fender Blackout Tele, Breedlove Acoustic/Electric Bass, Schecter Deluxe Bass, Dean Luna Acoustic, Line 6 500 Variax. Keeley Compressor, Line 6 PODXT Live, Roland GR-20 Synth.
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ampfixer
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/11 00:58:41
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Deisel401rs Lol. NOS tuna. . . . that's funny dude. I've replaced all the caps in my Randall preamps with Orange Drops and Silver Mica's. As of yet I don't hear a difference but I'm hoping they just need to break in. Def gonna try the Vitamin T's in my Les Paul. Thanks for the info. Have a good evening. BTW, would you have any ideas for maling my Marshall like SL+ preamp more "Marshally"? I'm kind of a novice at this with good soldering skills. You can't go wrong by upgrading components but often it's not worth the effort. If the transformers in an amp are junk they just won't sound good regardless of the other components. When it comes to caps I usually make changes centered around the tone stack. Changing parts in this area will yield the most noticable change without any other mods. Global feedback circuits also allow you to change the character of an amp by messing with 1 or 2 components. If you give me more info on your amp I could offer a couple suggestions.
Regards, John I want to make it clear that I am an Eedjit. I have no direct, or indirect, knowledge of business, the music industry, forum threads or the meaning of life. I know about amps. WIN 10 Pro X64, I7-3770k 16 gigs, ASUS Z77 pro, AMD 7950 3 gig, Steinberg UR44, A-Pro 500, Sonar Platinum, KRK Rokit 6
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wst3
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/14 14:06:13
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Hi Mike - if you can tell us where, in the circuit, these capacitors are used we can probably figure out which ones need to be expensive and which one may not need to be...
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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Philip
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/14 20:06:54
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Capacitors, iirc, just hold potential electric charges. I wouldn't get too hung up on the Russian brand, as I've neurotically done with tubes ... unless of course you're trying to build a Manley Passive EQ ... or something with some coloration.
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wst3
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/14 21:24:23
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☄ Helpful
Capacitors do quite a bit more than hold an electrical charge - whether they should or not is another topic altogether<G>! In power supply applications you are generally interested in the capacitance, the tolerance is probably not a huge factor. Working voltage is a big deal, and so too is series resistance - or rather it could be. Cost is also an issue, and of course physical size. Linear power supplies are much more forgiving on series resistance, I've recently learned that switching circuits can be really sensitive to resistance! Learned the hard way too<G>. In audio path applications capacitance is key, and series resistance may be important, depending on the circuit. Leakage is a huge variable, and may be a problem in many audio paths. The material that makes up the capacitor may be an issue - the jury is still out. And so it goes, like everything else, it's choices and optimizations.
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/15 08:54:57
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wst3 Hi Mike - if you can tell us where, in the circuit, these capacitors are used we can probably figure out which ones need to be expensive and which one may not need to be... Hi Bill, I bought an old Vibrolux reverb last year and it's a bit weak sounding. I plan on buying 5 16uf 450v Spragues and making the power supply fresh. We've been having an ongoing conversation about parts cost in some gear... and lack of it in other gear. :-) So, I thought the comment in my OP might further that dialog. I am also working on a new reissue Princeton Reverb amp... so I was just sort of comparing the capacitor costs, it uses the Illinois brand caps, and I was pointing out how much variance there is in pricing for the pieces parts. I can easily find info that says the Spragues aren't worth the extra money... and I can still afford to buy them for an occasional amp project. So, I plan to stick with them unless something much better comes along. Curiously, I usually opt for cheaper power supply caps in my DIY stuff because I'm trying to build that stuff to an imaginary low price point target... just to see if I can. Thanks very much for adding your comments. best regards, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2012/01/15 08:57:11
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wst3
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/16 21:06:11
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Hi Mike - guess you really can't own enough old Fender amps eh? The thing about parts prices is that they are, to some degree, imaginary (if I were a jaded sort) or possible just arbitrary. The problem with parts selection is that specifications are not always complete, and comparing one part to another can be trying! If I were building one-offs I'd probably skip price as a consideration, well except that I don't really believe in all those magic caps, but then as soon as the cost becomes an order of magnitude greater than anything else I get suspicious... anyone want to buy a $300 power cord? In many cases parts are selected for street appeal as much as anything else. A company might use a "premium" part just to be able to say that they did. Most of the time this is pure marketing. There are exceptions of course... I tend to save my pennies for specific brands of transformers, for example. Some are just plain neutral, some provide very specific non-linearities... so it's still a choice, but I don't skimp. I've tried the lower priced fare and been disappointed every time. For capacitors I've settled on a couple different families, and I don't stray far from them, come to think of it the same goes for resistors. Recently I've had to learn all about surface mount parts - makes me appreciate tubes even more!!!!!
-- Bill Audio Enterprise KB3KJF
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/17 07:36:22
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Hi Bill, With spraques, for example, the pricing is absolutely arbitrary. Sprague announced it would discontinue making power supply electrolytic caps and the market reached out and indicated it would endure higher pricing and wanted to continue having the product available. So Spraugue jacked their prices to a level that they found comfortable... a level which was beyond what they had predicted the market would support... and guys like me still buy the Spragues for special projects. The thing about this particluar example is that it isn't really about people thinking one properly working item sounds better than an other. The demand for Spragues has more to do with a desire to feel confident that the device is actually working properly and not breaking down in the circuit. I don't know much about the fancy high priced coupling capacitors... :-) All the best, mike
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DeeringAmps
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Re:Why do capacitors in the reissue cost $2.20 while the ones in my old beater only cost $
2012/01/18 09:50:09
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old Vibrolux reverb = 16uf 450v Spragues = No Brainer! Arbitrary pricing; supply/demand. Quality; first rate! If there's room in the cap cover go 20uf on the screens. I don't know why, but a stable screen supply just "works" for me. Generally I put a diode in line to prevent the output plates from "pulling" power from the rest of the string. 1) Helps keep the screen supply extra stable 2) Adds a bit more "sag" T
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