I need a formula to combine two tracks with same energy

Geno wrote:

I would like to try combining two different kicks from Superior drummer 2.0. Both kicks are producing the same "loudness". I want to combine them so the result is the approximately the same energy as just one of the tracks. With Dramagog you have a mix ratio, which you could combine both sounds with a simple percentage.

This is a "by ear" thing G. When you say they have the same loudness, are you watching a meter to tell you this? If so...a transient in a kick may make it appear louder due to the peak it puts out, but it doesn't mean it's literally the same level as the other kick. When I work with stuff like this, I sometimes like to pan them and listen to what side may actually sound louder to me. This of course means you have to have 2 good working ears. LOL! 

Geno wrote: How would I do this with faders? If my normal setting was 0db for one track, would I set them both at -3db for 50%? What if I want one to be 70% and the other 30% - how would the faders be set? Is there a formula for this?

No because you're still stuck with the one that may have more of a transient attack. For example, a kick with more beater in it is only going to attack at the beater hit. A kick with more low end is going to be the louder sound that lasts longer. If we measured these with meters, the beater kick showing the same volume on the meters won't always necessarily be louder...but if that beater impact (like say the Steven Slate Metallica kick) is intense enough, watching the mters while doing this will fool you all the time.

The way I do it (other than the pan thing I mentioned) is to start with the weaker kick and put it at a level to where it can be heard at all times without being too dominant. Then, add in the one you like and mix in the volume until the reason you chose that kick can be heard along with the original one you started with.  Keep taking turns muting one to see if you're getting the right impact out of each and listen for which may be dominating. Then listen in the mix. Is the weaker one complimenting the stronger kick? (When I say weaker vs. stronger I mean the one you like a little more...there is always one sound we like more than the other) Can you hear enough impact of the stronger kick?

I do this stuff all the time. Most times, it's just a feel thing. There's a reason you chose both of these kicks. The object really isn't to make sure they are the same level but to make sure they create "an entity" so to speak where they compliment each other like 2 different guitar tones with two different eq's. I never look at my meters or my faders when doing this stuff. I close my eyes and my ears make the choice for me. Sometimes, you may need the weaker one a little louder than the stronger one. In the case of a kick having more beater and the other being deeper with low end....the beater kick may just need to be heard enough for that "click" you get out of it. Therefore, if you made it the same volume as the other, it may be too much due to that transient beater attack. Hope this helps a bit....but to my knowledge, I've never heard of any forumla's for this.

-Danny 

Thanks Danny.  I'm trying two kicks from Superior that seem to be nearly identical in loudness (I'm thinking the guys at toontrack did a pretty good job getting them to be consistent).  They have slightly different qualities, and I like them both, but there are things about both I don't like.  I tried putting them together before and the tone is pretty cool.  But of course the resulting volume is too loud so I have to back them both down.  That's where it would be cool to have a control like Drumagog where I can just change the %mix until I find something I like.  I'll try your technique.

drewfx1 - Thanks for your formula - If I'm understanding you correctly - I put two identical tracks, and the result will be +6db.  So if I want the result to be 0db, I would back each one down by -6db?  And of course, in my circumstance the two aren't identical, so there really isn't any useful formula I could use.

Yeah - in the end it will come down to doing it by ear.  But it's interesting to know what the ballpark range theoretically should be.

I'm pretty sure there is actually a formula. I swear I remember studying it at uni. But I can't remember and don't have time to look.

Either way, don't use the formula, it's only a theoretical approximation anyway. Use your ears. That's what matters.

Try setting the two gains for each track as an inversly proportional group so when you bring one down, the other goes up. Not sure how well this would work, but may be worth a look into as it could potentially do everything automatically for you, if you're lucky..

Well, without getting involved in the maths, you could run the chorus @ 40% wet on the buss and have the send to it set wide open (0dB)

But I would still run it at 100% on the bus and adjust by ear.