Helpful ReplyDesperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off?

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Kevin Conner
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2012/01/28 03:11:38 (permalink)

Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off?

HAHA I just discovered Internet Explorer is included on all windows based operating systems!:D
I'm partially joking because it's been months since I used it for anything other than cleaning temporary internet files.
 
 I am extremely upset so I need to keep my post down to a few points to avoid ranting. Music Creator 5 had a Fluid UI. I was able to figure everything out quickly. Music Creator 6 is extremely restrictive when adding instruments, with tutorials that only give half of the information you need. I've been at this for over 16 hours now between two days and am very upset, so I am asking questions from the beginning.
 
1. When I called Cakewalk I told the information and sales rep EXPLICITLY that I needed a program for my business which would allow me to program full orchestra scores. I told him, some scores would require 30 or more instruments at once. I asked him explicitly, which program would be the best with tablature notation that would allow me to use all the instruments I need at once. He said Cakewalk Music Creator 6.
 
2. I went through TWO different tutorials that instructed me on how to add instruments. The first tutorial - ON THE OFFICIAL SITE - told me how to go into and change the Sound Center output. This tutorial wound up making every single Audio Track the SAME EXACT INSTRUMENT.
 
3. The SECOND tutorial instructed me on adding instruments to the Synth Pane. It then took me 3 hours to figure out how to insure that EACH FREAKING Audio Track would be attached to the CORRECT instrument output in the Synth Pane.
 
4. After adding 8 instruments to the Synth Pane I get this message:
 
"Maximum number of instruments exceeded. Please remove one from the Synth Rack before trying to insert again."
 
8 instruments.
 
I've tried removing instruments from the Synth Rack after anchoring them to a Track - DOES NOT WORK. I've tried to add an Instrument Output to a Track without adding it to the Synth Rack - DOES NOT WORK. Even Music Creator 5 allowed me to create more than 8 Tracks which were each separate instruments. If 8 instruments is the hard cap no matter what, then I demand a full refund for the $150 I spent, or some other compensation, because 8 instruments is 100% WORTHLESS TO ME AND MY JOB, and I'm pissed off enough to make this an issue. IF there is a different way to add instruments, then I need to know, because this UI is the WORST I've seen, and whomever wrote the Tutorials needs to be fired.
post edited by Kevin Conner - 2012/01/28 13:49:49
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Kevin Conner
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 06:02:26 (permalink)
Ok, I have to ask, is the only way to program full orchestral pieces by piecemealing the compositions together via this method: 1. Composing 8 instruments together then exporting into a midi. 2. Composing 8 more instruments together then exporting into a midi. 3. "" 4. "" 5. Taking all of the midis then splicing them together. If so, this is incredibly cumbersome and definitely lacking a tutorial from the website.
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 08:06:14 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Welcome Kevin.

OK... many points. 

first... I use Chrome as my browser here because FF started acting up after FF6 was upgraded.

Next: 

I think, for orchestral stuff, you might want to consider X1 essentials since it allows more synths ...HOWEVER..... 

While MC6 is limited to 8 active synths in the rack, so too are many other DAW's because of the computer limitations.  At some point, every computer will choke on the number of synths and not be able to keep them all running in real time.

For larger compositions, it would simply be a matter of working around this issue. 

Insert the synth, set up the patch or the sample and compose the part. Get it right then BOUNCE the part to a new audio track. Name this track according to the instrument it represents. Then, simply drag the midi track to the bottom,,,, mute it and change the output of the midi track to NONE. This essentially archives it and midi tracks do not take a huge amount of space. 

What ever you do.... DO NOT HIDE THE TRACKS IN MC6.  There is no "unhide" function. That is the one bug that we have discovered. 

Now.... simply add a new midi track and set its inputs and outputs as needed, change the patch and repeat the process, recording the new midi part. 

Most modern computers with any decent processor and a respectable amount of memory can easily run dozens of audio tracks without a problem. Processing a synth in real time is a CPU consuming process, so working in audio is best, especially if the project is large. 

Another issue. Do not attempt to run this on a factory soundcard. If you are serious about 30 track orchestral pieces, spend the money to get a really nice audio/midi interface (around $200-300) and that will make life easier for you, if you don't already have one. 

Next, Yes.... the GUI in MC6 is based on X1 and is a bit different than MC5 or MC4. It's simply a matter of learning where everything is. 

Also, learning about midi and changing patches and sample and bouncing...... highly recommended. If you have questions about midi and channels and such..... ask. I have some basic stuff on my web site about midi in general.... using TTS as an example to set up 3 different instruments to play out of TTS.  See the page here>>>>  http://www.herbhartley.co...edited_slimmer_005.htm  browse down to ADVANCED TTS Setup to see how to play multiple different things in TTS at the same time.

Which brings me to another point. 

Synths like the Cakewalk Sound center are one trick ponies. They do one instrument at a time, and with 8 tracks and 8 instances of CSC installed ....you have reached the maximum.

HOWEVER...... TTS to the rescue. TTS is a 16 channel synth. In my tutorial I explain this using 3 of those channels. You can insert TTS  ONE TIME....and add 16 midi tracks. You assign each midi track to a different TTS input channel and assign a different patch to each channel. By turning the inputs in teh midi channels on and off, you can record a unique track in each. then, for example have channel 1 play trumpet, ch 2 play flute, chan 3 play violin, chan 4 play oboe, chan 5 play timpini....and so on. 

All out of ONE instance of the synth.  Now... if you need more instruments, add TTS-2 to the project and TTS-3 and so on..... so if you want you can have 128 active midi channels playing live synths. 

First.... become familiar with synths, explore TTS and see if that will solve the problem. 


So what the sales person at Cakewalk told you was correct. Using TTS you can run a ton of midi tracks through synths.  


I hope this helps you and clears up some of the confusion.   MC6 is a great program, especially considering what it costs, and what it has in it and what it is capable of. 






post edited by Guitarhacker - 2012/01/28 08:10:22

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57Gregy
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 10:59:22 (permalink)
Welcome to the forum.
MC 6 is a lot different in look and function than the earlier programs, but does the same things.
All of the Music Creator programs have a limit on the number of soft synths you can use simultaneously (8) and the number of effects you can use simultaneously, so nothing has changed there. Using multi-timbral synths like TTS-1 and bouncing the synths to audio as Guitarhacker wrote is how you get beyond the 8 synth limit.
What other synths do you have besides what came with MC 5/6? What's your operating system? Perhaps we can suggest some others for you to use so with 2 multi-timbral soft synths inserted you will can feed 32 MIDI tracks to them.
Instead of using the synth rack to add synths, use the Insert menu at the top. Make sure that the 'Create MIDI Source Track' box is checked and the program will insert the synth and a MIDI track with it's output already set to that synth.
The Cakewalk notation works fine for someone like me who can't read or write music very well but for those wanting more, programs like Finale are more comprehensive. Don't get me wrong. I use the Staff view to edit and write MIDI tracks all the time. I wrote almost every note of my 2 classical works in the Staff view even though I have no formal music education. It wasn't easy. I knew just enough.
Anyway, stick with it and ask questions. Someone checks in here every few hours and we try to help when we can.

Greg 
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 11:05:47 (permalink)
Some people seem to live here at different times of the day and depending on the day as well.  

Greg makes a good point about using a different program like Finale to do scores. MC6 is designed to do the recording and mostly at what is considered a "beginners" level. But like I pointed out earlier, it is still a very capable program and if you know your way around in it, you can do some pretty amazing things with it.

Printing scores is not it's strong point however. 

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Kevin Conner
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 13:37:04 (permalink)
  OK so MC6 does have work arounds. I have to say I'm still pissed with the layout, and the guy I spoke with on the phone should've just told me to buy the other program (which is on sale as well). The fact he insisted on me purchasing MC6 really kinda pisses me off right now since apparently the other program has a bit better functionality. I was clearly doing things in MC5 which made it far easier to work around the 8 instrument synth limit that are not allowed in MC6.
 
 
Thank you for letting me know about your tutorial. You know what, I must've been using some sort of TTS trick in MC5 and didn't even know it (I apparently have a number of TTS things going on there. I just checked it) - probably because it was as easy as just a 2 button command. I do have to ask, is it possible though to split the score up into multiple files and then combine them? Because I'm seeing options where MC6 allows me to import processed/combined midi/wav files as a single track.
 
FIXED!  Using IE!:D
post edited by Kevin Conner - 2012/01/28 13:51:39
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 13:41:36 (permalink)
Kevin Conner


   I do have to ask, is it possible though to split the score up into multiple files and then combine them? Because I'm seeing options where MC6 allows me to import processed/combined midi/wav files as a single track. 

This I do not understand. 




you can easily download Chrome or Opera and use them when on the forums.  I use both and they seem to work well. 

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Kevin Conner
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 13:41:59 (permalink)
OH I do have a side question: What would be a good substitute for Tambourine? Even with all of the music patches I bought (world instruments, orchestral woodwinds/brass/etc...) not one single one has Tambourine (or Triangle, but bells are substituted for that). In fact, I had to import Glockenspiel from MC6 because it (and many other instruments) were not part of MC6.
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Kevin Conner
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 13:46:13 (permalink)
editing all my messages in IE :D
 
" This I do not understand. "
I'm looking at the commands and functions here in MC6, and one of the functions apparently asks if I want to import a completed midi or wav file as a track.
 
Does that work well, or am I misunderstanding this functionality?
All I care about is a final output midi or wav file.
 
 
"you can easily download Chrome or Opera and use them when on the forums. I use both and they seem to work well."
 
I uninstalled Chrome and Opera for a reason. They were interfering with other programs.

FIXED!:D  Using IE :D
post edited by Kevin Conner - 2012/01/28 13:50:58
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 14:01:40 (permalink)
You can easily import audio and midi. I do it all the time. 

You can copy and paste or simply use the IMPORT AUDIO or MIDI commands as I do. 

Highlight the track then click on Import Audio (midi as needed) and navigate to the location of the audio or midi and click it....   waaaa laaaa... done. 

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Kevin Conner
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 14:06:09 (permalink)
Awesome, thank you so much. Also my ears are open to any suggested replacement for hte tambourine. I think the G below Middle C on the Salsa instruments sounds almost like a tambourine? I dunno, anyway, thank you again!:D OH, hey another question: I am in a rush so if this question makes NO sense I'll explain when I get back. I want to be able to make certain instruments increase and decrease in sound throughout the song (i.e. emulate things such as crescendo effect). The guy on the phone told me I'd have to insert something about cc programming? Are there tutorials on how to accomplish this?
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Guitarhacker
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 14:39:36 (permalink)
Tamborine.... visit a music store. You can buy a real one for a few bucks..... same thing with shakers and wood blocks and cowbells. 

Using a real one sounds better than the patched and sampled ones...PLUS.... that human "not quite perfect" meter makes the other things sound a bit more....real. 

To increase and decrease volume: use envelopes. search help to see how to do this
 With MIDI, there is volume and there is velocity. Similar but different.  Velocity is like playing a real piano. Press the key softly and you get one sound..... slam the key hard the the tonal quality changes. Velocity is like that.  Volume and velocity can work together well. BUT.... using envelopes to control levels is easier than using velocity. BUT.... I think you can automate both. Look up velocity as well in the help. 

The more you work with MC6 the more things you will learn and how to do them more efficiently as well. 


Also, there are a number of videos on the cakewalk site. watch them. very useful. 

My website & music: www.herbhartley.com

MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW   
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"Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer 
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Kevin Conner
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 14:48:05 (permalink)
Regarding Tambourine: yeah, I just don't have a suitable recording area :( -- ok I'll try to search for envelopes :D
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 15:15:36 (permalink)
I believe there is a tamborine in TTS ( Check in the Drums ).

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Kevin Conner
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 19:53:09 (permalink)
Nope, can't find it. That's alright. I think I can substitute it good enough :D Thank you guys again :D
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57Gregy
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/28 23:48:58 (permalink)
The tambourine sound is note F#4 in TTS-1.

Greg 
I am selling my MIM Fender Stratocaster HSS, red and black. PM for more details.

Music Creator 2003, MC Pro 24, SONAR Home Studio 6 XL, SONAR  X3e, CbB, Focusrite Saffire, not enough space.
Everything is better with pie. 

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Kevin Conner
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Re:Desperately need help - Music Creator 6: did I get ripped off? 2012/01/29 01:02:15 (permalink)
Gregy: Thank you very much!:D
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