Wookiee
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Mic for guitar amp needed.
Hi all, I am looking for a Mic to record from the speaker of my VOX VT30 amp any suggestions will be greatly appreciate. Thanks in advance.
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timidi
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 10:08:18
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batsbrew
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 10:28:57
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a lot of my current electric guitar tracks are recorded direct. i use a combination of a part of my big rig, captured by a Palmer Junction PDI-09, and then an attenuator to take the volume down as low as i want. now, when i'm recording myself, i typically use my own cabinet as my guitar monitor, don't even put it thru the mix while tracking, and then i crank the ever mother lovin' peeese out of the monitors with the mix coming through, and play like i'm jamming with a full band. but with the attenuator, i can take the volume of the amp down to nighttime bedroom volume, and either play the monitors very low, or go to the headphones. i've never liked the results of sims, went thru several before i gave up on them, and much prefer the sound of a miced loud cab, but the attenuator and palmer is a WONDERFUL COMPROMISE, and the proof is in the recordings. using the palmer pdi-09 with miced cabs i combine micing a cab, with the direct signal from the palmer, as often as i can... most times, close micing plus the direct, doesn't get you into too much trouble with phase issues... if you're good in the DAW, you can actually slip the miced guitar track's wav file to exactly match the direct.... since there IS a time delay between the direct and the mic. but typically, i go ahead and back the mic off to get the room sound, and then blend THAT with the palmer track. works great, if you've got a good room sound. working direct is different, tho.. you'll find that you have a much more immediate sound in the monitors/headphones, and it COULD throw you at first. you get used to it tho.. i've found that putting some mild digital delay and reverb on the track just while i'm tracking (not printing effects) can help with the somewhat sterile vibe from the palmer direct... you know, you get used to standing around and listening to your amp bouncing it's sound off the walls of your room, and THAT is the sound of your guitar and amp. the palmer doesn't give a rat's @ss about any of that!! LOL my favorite way of using the palmer direct, is to NOT use the headphones... but crank up my music thru the monitors, as loud as the situation will allow, and match the volume of my amp (using the attenuator) to the monitors, and simply along with the monitors listening to my actual amp sound. then, i play more naturally. and whatever sound i end up with on the palmer, i work with. i've come up with several scenarios now, of how to adjust my amp to more approximate a 'miced' sound with the palmer, and even tho i'm setting the amp to suit the recording direct part, and use settings i typically would NEVER use at stage volume, or at full mic recording, it still works really well for low volume recording. the other cool fringe benefit of the palmer, is that when you gig, instead of micing, use the palmer.... the sound guys absolutely love it, and you cannot tell the difference at all thru a PA.
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batsbrew
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 10:30:02
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 10:43:22
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So what attenuator do you use?
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batsbrew
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 11:19:04
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The Weber Mass Lite, 100w, is my attenuator of choice. https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/masslite.htm here's how i use it: i go Mesa boogie Mark IIb 60 watt tube head /speaker out (8 or 4 ohm, prefer 8) into the Palmer PDI-09. so, boogie speaker out into palmer 'INPUT', and then back out via the 'THRU', and that goes to the Weber, for attenuation. From the Weber, 'speaker out' to whatever cab i want to use (the demeter isolation cabinet if i want to play loud, the celestion greenback cab if i want to monitor 'open air'.) idea here is, if i want to record in the headphones, i can attenuate the piss out of the boogie, put it in the demeter, and it is almost silent. if i want to play loud, and play along with my monitors blasting my backing tracks, i can use my closed back 1x12 with the celestion, or into the demEter, and play as loud as i want.. the palmer doesn't know the difference, only the weber comes into play, and since i'm not micing, there's no bleed over from the guitar cab and the monitors...... so, the 'BAL. OUT' on the palmer, is an XLR out, that goes to a mic preamp, digital convertor, and into the DAW. the switches on the top of the palmer give me line level attenuation, and 3 different 'cab and mic' sounds. i like the NORMAL setting the best. It's all passive, the weber and the palmer, so i'm not introducing any kind of electrical noise at either of these two units. on the weber: the feel of the response to the speaker cab, seems and feels more natural to me than other attenuators i've used before. but, i've got to run it almost maxed out to get the 'bedroom volume' control i want for actually using my speaker cab for monitoring. luckily, i have a Demeter iso box, that i can use as a load box to run the weber a little hotter (less attenuation, i mean) the little palmer pdi-09 unit is the thing that's stealing the true 'amp wide open' sound, so the weber is strictly for monitoring purposes..... i'm not micing the cab. notice the (2) attenuators on the face of the weber..... the mids/highs one on the right, just works a little bit... most of the energy is going to the lows and mids, so the attenuator on the left i've got maxed out, and then backed off a bit (about 1) with the highs set at about 2 or 3. when it's maxed out, i can actually hear the speaker motor inside the cage working. oh my god, don't dare hit the bypass switch, when the amp has the master sitting on '7'..... LOL i did that, just to hear the sound of the amp sitting on idle. just that, was louder than conversation volume. the boogie really sounds different, with the master almost wide open. the entire tone stack, opens up, and the mids become very throaty. 6L6's like to be pushed hard, that's when they become 'musical'. when you're using a tube amp with the master on '1', and the preamps dimed, all the tone is just preamp distortion with eq, and everything else, is just sitting on idle, and preamp distortion, isn't nearly as sweet as the power tubes cooking themselves to death. the unit does get a bit hot... and smells funny, at first, but the more i use it, the new burn smell is starting to go away. i do not miss the tone stack of the full Mass at all (the 'MASS' unit comes with varying degrees of tone control AFTER the attenuation)....... the low and hi control, is enough for me. maybe, if i was micing the cab, i might want a bit more control, but honestly, if i want more bass or less treble, i'll just tweak the amp. using this device, has cause me to re-think all of my gain structures, and choices of eq settings. the pedals, seem to have more tone and control, now that i'm running the boogie at it's optimum setting for 'output distortion'.
post edited by batsbrew - 2012/02/28 11:21:07
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batsbrew
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 11:20:04
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 11:55:55
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Cheers dude! Great information
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Wookiee
Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 13:35:42
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Thanks all, I was floating along the route of the SM57. Bat that palmer pdi-09 information is real useful many thanks for your input. Volume is not to much of a problem for me, no neighbours but I will investigate further. Thanks again all.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
Primary, i7 8700K 16Gigs Ram, 3x500gb SSD's 2TB Backup HHD Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit Secondary i7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit CbB, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V6, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Arturia Keylab-88, USB-MidiSport 8x8
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batsbrew
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 14:24:25
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i also love my trusty SM57, have used one since about 1980, and many a pro recording has been done with those. can't go wrong. i'd get both!
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ChuckC
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/28 17:06:45
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wst3
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/02/29 16:55:18
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SM57 or Royer R-101/121 or Fostex MR88P or Neumann TLM-193 or Shure KSM-32 or Sennheiser MD-421 or AKG C-451... depending on my mood and what I'm trying to accomplish.
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tyacko
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/01 07:50:33
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I used to use an SM-57 on my marshall amp, but a few years ago someone on another forum suggested a ribbon mic instead because I didn't care for the sounds I was getting from the SM-57. I bought a $199 ribbon mic from an on-line vendor. I don't even think they make the mic anymore, but I've been very happen with my recordings since getting it. I recently saw this ribbon mic http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CR14/ and thought about picking it up for some vocals. It sounds like it would do well with guitars (acoustic and electric) and drums as well. Tom
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Middleman
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/01 11:31:15
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SM57 or Royer R-101/121 Or both, the 57 on the grill the Royer out about a foot or two.
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Gaffpro
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/01 12:02:12
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Generally, a 57 is the way to go.......but try a ribbon as well....I would not go with a condenser BTW...thanks for the info on the Palmer......I know they've had a speaker simulator that mimics loading for ages...I'm going to check that DI out....great company!
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Wookiee
Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/01 13:28:08
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Thanks again all most useful. Me thinks the S57 is going to be the one. Can not stretch pocket for the Royer R-101/121.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
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batsbrew
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/01 14:27:22
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a few palmer users: Alex Lifeson Palmer PDI-03 speaker simulators (4) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_equipment Eddie Van Halen's Rig and Tone Techniques van halen's PDI-03 http://www.cathedralstone.et/Pages/PalmerPDI03.htm joe bonnamassa, actively using a Palmer (palmer info starts at 3:05) http://www.youtube.com/wa...7S9b...ayer_embedded#! also: http://www.palmer-germany.om/9-1-guitar-tools.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJXUIgBRElQ and a pdf from mercenary audio, about the PDI-09 in particular: http://lib.store.yahoo.ne...merce...lmer-PDI09.pdf phil collen (def leppard) live rig: we also use two Palmer PDI-05 speaker simulators for the rig. I run a Drawmer gate for a good noise gate on the outputs, which works fantastically well. The output of the Palmers actually goes to the monitor rig, FOH, and then the jump out of that goes into two old Randall RRM-2-250 solid-state power amps, which Phil’s been using since the early ‘80s. Those two amplifiers run four Marshall 4 x 12 cabinets on stage for the on-stage sound, but everything goes through the in-ear monitors on stage, so there’s no microphones on stage anywhere as far as the guitar rig goes!” http://www.performing-mus...com/p...s/techthat.htm Michael Landau uses a palmer pdi-04 for sends to effects...... SLASH "We're using two heads and two cabinets set up on top of each other that go direct (via Palmer PGA-04)" http://www.performing-mus...com/p...cles/slash.htm Jimmy Johnson: Guitar Tech for Styx "Jimmy has made a major change to Tommy Shaw’s guitar rig in introducing Palmer PDI-03 speaker simulators." One major change that Jimmy Johnson has made to Tommy Shaw’s guitar rig in the last year or so is introducing two Palmer PDI-03 speaker simulators, which have not only saved space on the truck, but have also improved Shaw’s tone! Jimmy used to use the original Palmer simulators when working with Rush, but a tricky legal wrangle meant that they went out of production for quite some time. “So I talked to Tommy and JY [James Young] about them. As soon as I plugged them in, they loved them, and they almost sound better than a Marshall 4 x 12, if that’s possible, so we loaded up on them. I’ve even got our bass player on them now!” http://www.performing-mus...com/p...hthat_0309.htm
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Gaffpro
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/02 12:22:33
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Cathedral Stone states that version 3 sounds better than version 4.......I've never used a Palmer, but I'd like to know how many simulations it can do
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Dave Modisette
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/02 19:29:54
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Take a Cascade Fathead and place it back about 4" from the grill cloth pointed at a spot about a 1/2 to the side of the where the dome of the speaker meets the cone. Move out to the side to attenuate the high end. This is making the stock 10" speaker in my Fender Pro Jr cabinet sound huge. I also use a SM52, MD421 or even an Audio Technica AT4033. I've thrown an Audix D2 on a cab too if it was thin sounding. I read somewhere that the Audix D2 copied the MD421 somewhat.
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Wookiee
Rrrrugh arah-ah-woof?
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/05 10:37:23
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Mod, Thanks for the suggestion unfortunately out of my price range at the moment. Looks like we are suffering from the old JB exchange rates as the price is more than double US prices in GBP.
Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, it's about learning to dance in the rain. Karma has a way of finding its own way home.
Primary, i7 8700K 16Gigs Ram, 3x500gb SSD's 2TB Backup HHD Saffire Pro 40. Win 10 64Bit Secondary i7 4790K, 32GB Ram, 500Gb SSD OS/Prog's, 1TB Audio, 1TB Samples HHD AudioBox USB, Win 10 64Bit CbB, Adam's A7x's - Event 20/20's, Arturia V6, Korg Digital Legacy, Softube Modular, Arturia Keylab-88, USB-MidiSport 8x8
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batsbrew
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Re:Mic for guitar amp needed.
2012/03/05 10:56:33
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the palmer devices do not do 'simulations'.
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