"The Time Is Magic" - guitar tweakers unite!!

"The Time Is Magic" - guitar tweakers unite!!

http://soundcloud.com/bats-brew/bb01-the-time-is-magic


for this one (title track of the new album) i decided to go all direct source, no microphones.

this is the weirdo of the bunch!

recording setup:

Sonar pro edition 6.0

i have (2) mic pres, a ART DPS with (2) tube pres and a digital convertor in it, and a A Designs Audio MP-1 class A tube mic preamp (mono).
i route either of these thru a DBX MC-6 compressor, and either directly into the ART convertor, or to the soundcard analog inputs, with conversion occurring at the card.

Drums:  Sony Acid, for drum tracks. i use real drums whenever i can get a drummer to work for free!
LOL

guitar rig:
for this song i used a Weber Mass Lite and Palmer PDI-09 on my mesa mark2b, with a avatar cab doing monitor duty.

this is for all you guys who are looking for a 'quiet' way to capture full bore tube amp sounds into Sonar, without getting evicted or divorced.




https://taweber.powweb.com/weber/masslite.htm


it works pretty well..

here's how i use it:

i go Mesa boogie Mark IIb 60 watt tube head /speaker out (8 or 4 ohm, it doesn't matter) into the Palmer PDI-09.



so, boogie speaker out into palmer 'INPUT', and then back out via the 'THRU', and that goes to the Weber, for attenuation. 

From the Weber, 'speaker out' to whatever cab i want to use (i have a  demeter isolation cabinet available, if i want to play loud, the celestion greenback cab if i want to monitor 'open air'.)

idea here is, if i want to record in the headphones, i can attenuate the piss out of the boogie, put it in the demeter, and you can't hear almost anything.....
if i want to play loud, and play along with my monitors blasting my backing tracks, i can use my closed back 1x12 with the celestion, or into the demeter, and play as loud as i want.. 
the palmer doesn't know the difference, only the weber comes into play, and since i'm not micing, there's no bleed over from the guitar cab and the monitors......

so, the 'BAL. OUT' on the palmer, is an XLR out, that goes to my mic preamp, digital convertor, and into SONAR.
the switches on the top of the palmer give me line level attenuation, and 3 different 'cab and mic' sounds.
i like the NORMAL setting the best. It's all passive, the weber and the palmer, so i'm not introducing any kind of electrical noise at either of these two units.

bass rig:
i use either a Carvin LB70, or a Ibanez Micro short scale...
run it into both a sansamp bass di and the boogie setup with the palmer, set for bass tone.
i blend the two signals together, to a single buss, and compress the whole on mixdown.


guitar rig:


in the clip, it shows the tone you can get in Position #4 on the vintage white strat, with a Bill Lawrence 500L Humbucker and a middle position L280 pickup together, along with a Q filter on the tone control, that varies the inductance on the pickup(s) (it shows position #2 in the pic)

Hi BB, fun tune this. Sounds are excellent. Fun tune to play along to, do you tune a half step down ?

Rik

Bat,
 
What's not to like?  Fun song, well played, well mixed, well produced.   You got some nice guitar tone going on in this tune.   Very nice touch to add the details about your set-up as well.    Top notch stuff as always.
 
Regards

markno999
thanks for listening, and reading up on the guitar setup.
some folks dig that stuff, others, their eyes glaze over.......
LOL




rimshot thanks man, glad you dig it....
more 60, huh?!
hehe
must be a drummer.....

here's the actual spectrum graph of the wave file:



i had to dip at 60, just slightly, to clean up a muddy area in the low end.
on a good playback system, there is PLENTY.... plenty of low end.
what are you listening back on?

MGH
PLAYFUL.
yes.



it's so easy to just let it rip...
i can do that without even thinking about it.


and most times, i'll jam to the songs for a few sessions, just playing 'diarreah of the fingers', so to speak..
but then, i'll listen to what i've done, and pick out the catchiest stuff...
usually the more simple stuff...




and build up melodies around those ideas.




so, you're hearing the best ideas of the 'go for it' moments, condensed down to just the best ideas.


i mean, i know what you're saying, coming from a guitarist's point of view, i totally get it.


but i have an entire instrumental album sitting in the wings, with plenty of wanking!!
LOL


look for that one soon...

As usual you have managed to capture the best sound possible with whatever you are using.

I used and/or owned a couple of high end attunators as well as the built in attenuator in my Carr amp.

But I still prefer my custom built isolation box.  I've got it dead quiet and and crank a small to medium sized amp into this thing and you can barely hear it.  I'm thinking of adding a second mic to the box so I can mix different spots on the speaker.

This sounds killer.  I've heard some good direct stuff and it keeps getting better.  Once they can accurately digitize a bunch of different speakers... probably only a matter of time.

I've looked at some really nice channel strips that I bet would produce some pretty fine guitar sounds but have not made the investment... but may do so soon... I'm getting the itch.  Will use it primarily for vocals and mic'ing acoustic instrumets

Very cool!

Daryl

alright daryl!
thanks for commenting on this submission for review.........!

you know, all my stuff is basically cheap stuff.
i've got a couple of decent microphones, of course my guitar stuff is nice, but as far as actual recording, it's all cheap stuff.

the iso box really bugs me, as well as it works, i can hear the inside of the box.
but if i record at low bedroom volumes, and use the cabinet, the 'box' effect is greatly reduced, and it sounds nice.
it's just that i have to run the amp a lot harder to get what i want out of it, and it's so loud inside the box, the sound is compressed.
when i use the master vol on the amp, and run at low volumes, i can get good sounds out of it, but they're not 'MY' sounds.....


now, just for clarity...

my direct stuff is not digital.

it's all analog.


there is no sim involved.


it is a device that captures the actual sound of the amp at the amp's output, and runs it thru a 'filter' that is voiced to sound like a cabinet...... and drops it down to line level to send to a mixer.

the 'thru' part of the palmer PDI-09, is a speaker out, and must have a load.

some folks just do not understand what this thing does, so i try to explain it as best as i can.


i can run the line out of the palmer, direct to my soundcard, and it sounds almost as good as running the same signal thru a high end mic preamp, so i do not think the preamp has a lot to do with the quality of the sound.

in fact, i'd go so far as to say it's the convertors that really matter.

but that's another issue all together!!


thanks again for talking with me about it....

Bat,
Thank for the graph!  Your levels look great.  I listen on a pair of old Koss headphones and my NS-10's.  Now you know why I think it could use a tweek at 60hz LOL.  However, I do listen to alot of music on my system and hey, only +3 db @ 60hz!  Maybe the frequency response after uploading to Soundcloud changed it somewhat?  I seem to pickup bass when uploading to Soundcloud.  Anyway, must be the drummer in me after all!. 
Great job again. 

Rimshot

That was really Fargin Cool!!!!!!

daryl
i kinda figured you were up to speed with the analog/digital difference, but figured i'd put it out there just for anyone else just getting into the game....
it sounds like your box, is actually dialed in for exactly what your doing.
that's great. that's the hunt.....
anytime you can upgrade to a better preamp for ANY signal..... be it vocals, bass or guitar.... it's worth doing, within reason.
there are a multitude of good preamps out there---but for what it's worth, on this particular song, everything was run thru the ART DPS preamp, convertor, and straight out to the spdif input of the soundcard.
i paid $220 for the ART.

 
 
alkie-
fargin awesome man!!
lol
glad you dig it...

classic... very nice tone. direct or miked..... you got it figured out. 

chuckc 
appreciate the comments.
the guitar tones were just so EASY on this one.
literally, turned the amp on, tweaked for about 3 minutes, and ran with it.
i love it when it works out that way!


guitarhacker
thanks for listening.
sometimes, a direct tone just works.
granted, i'm putting some slapback, or room reverb, on the super-dry direct tracks...
and of course, the palmer puts a nice cabinet filter on it, so it ends up sounding like a super hi-fi close miced studio recording,
which is the whole idea after all!!
but, whenever i hear it as 'sterile', i'll will tweak eq and compression and reverb, to get it warmer.
i did on this one, on mixdown.


daryl
the thing about updgrading gear is, you can almost ALWAYS hear improvement.

so if you've got it, spend it!!
LOL
just do as much homework ahead of time as possible, and think of the long-term use you'll get out of the stuff, not how much it's gonna cost.

and honestly, if you're not trying to compete with pro studios, what's the point in spending a grand per channel of converter?~~!!

lots of good dually tube pres out there, consider these:
expensive:
Trident Audio Developments A-Range
Tube-Tech MP 1A
Grace Design m201 with A/D Option
Manley Dual Mono Microphone Preamplifier
A Designs MP-2A (2 channel version of what i use)
Thermionic Culture Rooster Balanced

mid grade:
Universal Audio 2-610S Silverface
A Designs Pacifica (solid state, but wonderful)
Drawmer 1969


and a bit cheaper:
Audient Mico
Radial Firefly
Joemeek twinQ
FMR RNP (x2)

THANKS JANET  

yep, synths from loops, that i selected and pieced together

Nice playing, really warm sound.  Excellent mix and master.

I love some of that ART stuff as well, I have an ART PRO VLA II compressor, they def bat above their weight.

Peace Ben